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Thread: Can Police Hold You for 24 Hours without Reason?

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    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Can Police Hold You for 24 Hours without Reason?

    My pastor swears up and down that the police can hold you for 24 hours for "questioning" without charging you with anything. Since this sounds like total BS to me, I was wondering if anyone knew where in MO or federal law it says they can do that. I find it very hard to believe, since Missouri is part of the United States, which is often said to be the "freest place on earth".
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    My pastor swears up and down that the police can hold you for 24 hours for "questioning" without charging you with anything. Since this sounds like total BS to me, I was wondering if anyone knew where in MO or federal law it says they can do that. I find it very hard to believe, since Missouri is part of the United States, which is often said to be the "freest place on earth".
    SORT of, they have to have PC in order to do so, then they can jail you, once in jail, if charges are not filed within 24 hours of the arrest, you must be set free. It is sometimes referred to as a "20 hour hold" and is used very commonly in domestic violence incidents. The concept is, the officer may have probable cause, but not quite enough evidence to provide the prosecuter, the 20 hours are for additional investigation so as to gather that evidence.

    It gets abused too much and especially in domestic violence cases that are not legitimate, as a general rule the man takes the ride and is set free 20 hours later. The problem is, if it is unjust, it gives the other party 20 hours to do as they wish aka clean out bank accounts, move property, take the kids and bolt to another state etc. Real double edged sword.

    Notably, this is another reason one should ABSOLUTELY and CONSTANTLY monitor the legislature, several bills have been entered to EXTEND it to 48 hours, no charges have to be filed, pathetic stuff. It is not unlike what the shrub did with habeus corpus or however you speel that latin stuff

    They want the ability to hold a citizen as long as they can no matter what, it is where they derive thier power.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The real power the state has is the misconceptions of the law held by the citizenry.....and the 'state' ain't about to correct those misconceptions any time soon. Very powerful stuff, the rights infringement that the citizens do unto themselves. Makes it easy on the state.....and legal too.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The real power the state has is the misconceptions of the law held by the citizenry.....
    This may indeed be the "no shirt sherlock" statement of the year!, WOW that should be a bumpersticker without any doubt, KUDOs sir.

    For those wondering WTF about this 24 hour hold, County of Riverside v. McLaughin is the SCOTUS ruling indicating 48 is max. Notably, several states, counties and munis have been into trouble for keeping people without charges for as long as 30 days as was a Florida practice.

    And this applies to the plea for protest in Ozark as well, the manipulation of law that the Christian county sheriff's office has for a history clearly indicates legal representation before the protest and LOTS of video being taken would be very well advised.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    the manipulation of law that the Christian county sheriff's office has for a history
    This is an understatement. They are crooked as all get out down there.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Several operating video recording device will straighten out the crooked.....usually does, one way or the other. if you're lucky some folks will get a nice fat check from the local LEA(s).
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    I see. And thankfully United States v. Deberry-A firearm where legally carried, cannot be the only cause for reasonable suspicion for a stop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Several operating video recording device will straighten out the crooked.....usually does, one way or the other. if you're lucky some folks will get a nice fat check from the local LEA(s).
    First someone has to lawyer up . I don't see anyone ever doing that, only saying they would if it ever happed to them .

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Interesting observation. Yet, if the need for a lawyer does not present itself why would you need to lawyer up? A simple phone number to "a lawyer" will likely be all that is required, yet that number would remain unused due to the larger than normal crowd of law abiding OCing citizens for the local constabulary to address.

    Cops don't normally like to hassle a crowd of lawfully armed citizens peaceably assembled to exercise their 1A right, regarding their 2A right.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    In most states they can hold you until they can bring you before a judge for charges. So in some states this longer than 24 hours if on a weekend. But they still have to have PC for a arrest to bring a person in against their will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    if the need for a lawyer does not present itself why would you need to lawyer up?
    You said :


    if you're lucky some folks will get a nice fat check from the local LEA(s).
    How would they get these "nice fat check"s from LEO ? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying .

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The real power the state has is the misconceptions of the law held by the citizenry.....and the 'state' ain't about to correct those misconceptions any time soon. Very powerful stuff, the rights infringement that the citizens do unto themselves. Makes it easy on the state.....and legal too.
    +1


    On a related note, I recently decided to re-read The Origins of the Fifth Amendment: The Right Against Self-Incimination1 by Leonard Levy. The final straws that led to the abolishment of two English courts and the oath to answer incriminating questions before trial were the trials of John Lilburne2 in the 1600's. I was struck by the success of the people in getting rid of the oath and the two courts. I wondered why rights were increasing in (1650?), yet today they seem to receding weekly. The author paints a useful picture: large sections of the population were very vocal in supporting John Lilburne and hated the oath as a wholly unjust and unnatural imposition against conscience. In short, the people raised such an objection that Parliament, already somewhat sympathetic, passed the legislation abolishing the courts that used the oath--Star Chamber court (made up of the king's closest councilors sitting as judges), and the High Commission (made up of church officials sitting as judges).

    Basically, the people bloody well just demanded it, and Parliament gave it to them.


    1. The book won a Pulitzer prize in history in the late 1960's. And, is still in print. The author walks you through the history of the right against self-incrimination in England starting in about 1254 AD with Henry II. You really get a solid understanding of what it cost to obtain the right. This book is a definite must for anyone who wants to really understand this right. I think I bought mine from Barnes and Noble. Levy wrote another book, Origins of the Bill of Rights. Also, very good for understanding the history of rights.

    2. John Lilburne was an amazing guy. He spent a good bit of his adult life in prison for agitating for rights. If you do nothing else, at least read up about him on wiki. In one of his last trials, the government seriously meant to kill him (execute). The government thought it had an easy case. In a way, they did. What they did not have was an easy defendant. He was not a lawyer (and he was not allowed counsel), but had taught himself enough about law. He harassed the judges about procedure, he badgered them about attempted rights violations, he argued, he blasted. He didn't ask the court. He just did it.

    Early in the proceedings he demanded the doors to court and building be opened for what was supposed to be a public trial. The court, eager to give the apparency of fairness, complied. Of course, this just made more access for his numerous supporters who then packed the gallery. The court was rather irregular. The government appointed something like fourteen judges. Lilburne accused them of trying to over-awe him with so many judges. The gallery packed by common people supporting Lilburne, it was the court's turn to be awed.

    At another point the court demanded his silence bcause of his steady objections and argument; he fired back that they were not allowing him to defend himself.

    He backed the court into a corner, and won his own aquittal. All. By. Himself.

    And, those are just a few pieces from the one trial. Amazing guy. Well worth reading more about. Even if its only a wiki article.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-24-2012 at 06:33 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Any points of clairification you seek to offer? i do not have the time to read a 50 page SCOTUS opinion on the requirement for one to assert their rights in order to have those rights respected which is some what bogus BS to start with, the burden should ALWAYS fall on the government, not the citizen, but we continue to rapidly move away from that one these days.

    To problems with this thread, the title says "without reason" and that is not accurate, they must have at least reached RAS and moved to Probable Cause to arrest and hold. This does not mean that such things are not manipulated, stretched, skewed or even flat out lied about, but they must be able to demonstrate it in court or face civil liabilities.

    That is also a MAJOR portion of the problem, it should actually be pressed to have CRIMINAL liabilities as well. Then some of these jack legs that are chomping at the bit to do the governments bidding without regard and respect for the oaths they took to uphold the constitutions might not be so interested in political favor and once again might value justice over moving up the power chain.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Any points of clairification you seek to offer? i do not have the time to read a 50 page SCOTUS opinion on the requirement for one to assert their rights in order to have those rights respected which is some what bogus BS to start with, the burden should ALWAYS fall on the government, not the citizen, but we continue to rapidly move away from that one these days.

    To problems with this thread, the title says "without reason" and that is not accurate, they must have at least reached RAS and moved to Probable Cause to arrest and hold. This does not mean that such things are not manipulated, stretched, skewed or even flat out lied about, but they must be able to demonstrate it in court or face civil liabilities.

    That is also a MAJOR portion of the problem, it should actually be pressed to have CRIMINAL liabilities as well. Then some of these jack legs that are chomping at the bit to do the governments bidding without regard and respect for the oaths they took to uphold the constitutions might not be so interested in political favor and once again might value justice over moving up the power chain.
    I agree with that and add that every time a innocent citizen is convicted and later cleared. And there is misconduct by any government official somebody should be going to jail. Civil suits on these thugs just don't seem to get the message to them to stop.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Essentially, keeping your pie-hole shut does not "inform" the cops that you intend to remain silent.....oddly enough. So, getting arrested and keeping your pie-hole shut will lead to the max amount of time you are in 'custody' before they cut you loose because they arrested you on bogus charges. See 'Thirdly', below.

    Thirdly, gubmint folks don't learn because.....OPM. Why should they care, the money they are 'paying' out is not coming from their personal bank account(s). This is why a settlement should never be agreed upon. If the offending bureaucrat is willing to settle, make a jury increase the amount and get it in the public record. Case law would be even better.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

    Politicians are the tyrants 3000 miles away; thug cops are 3000 tyrants 1 mile away. (Adapted from Benjamin Martin, fictional character extraordinaire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Essentially, keeping your pie-hole shut does not "inform" the cops that you intend to remain silent.....oddly enough. So, getting arrested and keeping your pie-hole shut will lead to the max amount of time you are in 'custody' before they cut you loose because they arrested you on bogus charges. See 'Thirdly', below.
    Got ya, yeah I was pretty disappointed in that ruling, it basicly sucked.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boba Fett View Post
    My pastor swears up and down that the police can hold you for 24 hours for "questioning" without charging you with anything. Since this sounds like total BS to me, I was wondering if anyone knew where in MO or federal law it says they can do that. I find it very hard to believe, since Missouri is part of the United States, which is often said to be the "freest place on earth".
    Ask your pastor what he thinks Jesus would think of such a thing.

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    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ask your pastor what he thinks Jesus would think of such a thing.
    Nice! I said I thought his information was bogus.
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