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Thread: Philip on TV with Lori Haas talking about Gun Free Zones

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Philip on TV with Lori Haas talking about Gun Free Zones

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    She doesn't know what she is talking about. In these cases, 90% of the time, its citizens who stop the shooters, in in CO.

    She can yap yap yap all she wants I guess; it will not change anything

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    Regular Member Betty_Rose_Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    She doesn't know what she is talking about. In these cases, 90% of the time, its citizens who stop the shooters, in in CO.

    She can yap yap yap all she wants I guess; it will not change anything
    Gosh, you'd think a CHURCH would be a "gun free zone."

    Thankfully, this church had a parishoner who was armed and ready. BTW, this also happened in Aurora, CO this year. How many of you had heard about this?

    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/cri...iline&start=10

    On April 22 of this year a convicted felon, just out of jail, went to an Aurora, Colorado, church and shot and killed a member of the congregation before being killed himself by a congregant carrying a gun.

    On July 20, following the horrific shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, President Obama offered his condolences to the victims of the more recent tragedy. "Our time here [on Earth] is limited and it is precious," the president said. "And what matters at the end of the day is not the small things, it’s not the trivial things which so often consume us and our daily lives. It’s about how we choose to treat one another and how we love one another."


    Read the rest at the link.

    And please share the link with others.
    Last edited by Betty_Rose_Brown; 07-24-2012 at 10:51 AM.

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    A face shot in a darkened theater, screaming patrons obstructing, tear gas canister deployed and general mass confusion? Without undue risk of hitting an innocent movie goer, ŗ la friendly fire?

    That would tax the abilities of a trained military "shooter" who typically fires a minimum of 200 rounds per day in a shooting house, let alone your average Joe OC no matter how much range time he gets.

    I'm all for PVC's premise but he should have quit while he was ahead before advancing that shoot 'em in the face idea. Wonder if that course of action would have passed the credibility test when he was on the force?

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    I have to admit, that in this situation, a lone open/concealed carrier would probably have been just as screwed as everyone else. Maybe he could get in some lucky shot to the face, but considering all the circumstances that would be highly unlikely. Of course, this doesn't take away from the fact that in other mass shootings, like VA Tech, a lawful carrier could have saved many lives, or that there have been countless mass shootings that have been prevented by legal carriers. It also doesn't change the fact that gun control laws wouldn't have done anything to stop this.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    While we are all "correct" when noting that body shots most likely would not have been lethal because of the armor, we are overlooking a significant part of the concept of "stopping the threat".

    It is not necessary to cause the death of the person in order to stop the threat. In fact we seem to take enjoyment from reports of the threat being stopped when the BG merely sees the LAC is in fact armed.

    The history of recent mass shootings seems to be that once the shooter encounters any sort of resistance they stop their rampage. Many of them also kill themselves - whether to avoid getting shot or to avoid prosecution we just do not know.

    So even in the chaos of this mass shooting there is an at least even chance (in my mind if nowhere else) that a lone GG LAC going up against this shooter might have stopped the shooting. The problem as I see it is we will never know because no GG LAC was given a chance to decide to go up against the shooter or not.

    All we know for sure is that when you are unarmed1 your only choices are to get shot, to run and hope you do not get shot, or to hide and hope you do not get shot.

    stay safe.

    1 - I'm not trying to blame anyone, but it helps to realize that it is not just carrying a handgun that makes one armed. One can be effectively armed with a ballpoint pen or with a purse.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    <snip> One can be effectively armed with a ballpoint pen or with a purse.
    I'll choose a gun. A ball point pen in my european man bag won't cut it in the situation described above.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    I doubt the shooter had a ballistic (bullet resistant) vest. I'll bet he had what's often called a tactical vest. I suspect the press reports about him being heavily armored are largely wrong. More likely he was fully decked out as a mall ninja.
    Last edited by BillB; 07-24-2012 at 12:49 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    I doubt the shooter had a ballistic (bullet resistant) vest. I'll bet he had what's often called a tactical vest. I suspect the press reports about him being heavily armored are largely wrong. More likely he was fully decked out as a mall ninja.
    Fully decked out doesn't make them bulletproof Bill.

    Anyway....Philip meets "Look at me Lori"


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    Well, there goes my lunch!
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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Fully decked out doesn't make them bulletproof Bill.
    Thought my post rather pointedly suggested that - guess I need to be more direct.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    Thought my post rather pointedly suggested that - guess I need to be more direct.
    It did, I just wasn't being specific for a reason. I don't want to get into a "Train to defeat body armor" thread....so it was I that should have been more direct....
    Or maybe just more quiet

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Another thing Miss Numpty misses is that a considerable portion of the OC community are in fact former police, military, as well as active. Also the so called claim of hitting innocents is not likely unless it is a ricochet. I don't think any of us would stand up and get into a firefight, we would take cover first, and that would put shots at the BG in an upward trajectory. In fact this latest tragedy drives home that sobering fact~when seconds count police are a minute away.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry Lori Haas

    Dangerously mentally ill.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Its Mental, not Metal.

    Blaming a hunk of steel for the evils of the world is the easy way out. It also accomplishes nothing. Addressing the disease of the brain is much harder, but necessary if you are serious about stopping violence. So passing laws focused on an inanimate object is a waste of time with no return on investment. Applied behavior analysis is a more effective tool than enacting laws which will be ignored regardless. Itís a difficult solution to a complex issue which wonít be fixed by simply signing a piece of paper. If such were true then DC, Chicago & New York would be Gardens of Eden with people walking the streets on nighttime strolls with no fear of violent acts.

    Lori Haas' only qualification to speak intelligently on this matter is that her son was made to be a victim by the university he attended. I was hit by a golf ball once, but that didn't make me a scratch golfer.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youíre serious and when youíre being sarcastic. ĖAbraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I have thought a lot about this shooting since it happened.

    If I were involved I would have:

    1)thrown my wife to the floor

    2)dropped down myself and told her to start moving

    3)drawn my firearm and continued to crawl with wife toward an exit and/or cover

    Note I did not say engage the shooter. Last resort for me. I doubt I would maneuver to engage unless I thought that was my best option for our own survival.

    As to the video, I respect PVC in the highest. I was, however, a bit put-off with his statement that (paraphrase) permit holders probably practice more than police.

    I bet Peter Nap practices more than I do, and he ain't got no steenkin' permit.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinChin View Post
    Blaming a hunk of steel for the evils of the world is the easy way out. It also accomplishes nothing. Addressing the disease of the brain is much harder, but necessary if you are serious about stopping violence. So passing laws focused on an inanimate object is a waste of time with no return on investment. Applied behavior analysis is a more effective tool than enacting laws which will be ignored regardless. Itís a difficult solution to a complex issue which wonít be fixed by simply signing a piece of paper. If such were true then DC, Chicago & New York would be Gardens of Eden with people walking the streets on nighttime strolls with no fear of violent acts.

    Lori Haas' only qualification to speak intelligently on this matter is that her son was made to be a victim by the university he attended. I was hit by a golf ball once, but that didn't make me a scratch golfer.
    It was her daughter ChinChin. You're thinking Of Goddard.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It was her daughter ChinChin. You're thinking Of Goddard.
    Victim to*MA*to.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youíre serious and when youíre being sarcastic. ĖAbraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    The point I think is we don't know if it would have stopped the shooter or not but not being allowed to carry took away the chance. All we know for sure is no one was armed so their defense methods were hope and pray not try to defend.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    It's called the failure drill (or Mozambique). If a subject is wearing body armor (or is doped up) and center of mass hits are not effective, you then aim for the head, specifically the face, in the triangular region formed by the eyes and nose, due to the least bone mass that could deflect the bullet (or less common, but still an option, the pelvic bone if it's the only shot available to physically disable the subject) to stop the attack.

    .
    Actually, what we (well, I) teach now is:

    High upper chest (green)
    Pelvic girdle (yellow)
    Head (red)

    ....in that order, for various reasons.

    Its what I call the "targeting traffic light"
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  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    As to the video, I respect PVC in the highest. I was, however, a bit put-off with his statement that (paraphrase) permit holders probably practice more than police.
    Not me.. I have many friends that are cops.. I think they go to the range when they have too or if it is PAID time off the street. Only a handful really LOVE to go shoot like my friends and I do.. you see THEM at the range and the gun show etc.. the others? Not so much..
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911 Enthusiast View Post
    A face shot in a darkened theater, screaming patrons obstructing, tear gas canister deployed and general mass confusion? Without undue risk of hitting an innocent movie goer, ŗ la friendly fire?

    That would tax the abilities of a trained military "shooter" who typically fires a minimum of 200 rounds per day in a shooting house, let alone your average Joe OC no matter how much range time he gets.

    I'm all for PVC's premise but he should have quit while he was ahead before advancing that shoot 'em in the face idea. Wonder if that course of action would have passed the credibility test when he was on the force?

    it has been done (i know it to be true) and i would point out that the shooter had ballistic body suit on, mostly for looks. a .45 would have stopped him

    but Philip is right we need to keep hitting this GFZ thing as often as we can.

    and i shoot way more than any cop
    Last edited by papa bear; 07-25-2012 at 12:17 AM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I do these drills about once a month and I've found that after stressing (which is getting easier as I get older) I have trouble getting head shots. The hundred yard dash does terrible things to my bragging shots.

    I've found that the pelvic shot is pretty easy. I always feel like Ed Ames on the Johnny Carson show, but from the knees up, there's a lot of stuff to stop a bullet.

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    As they say, BIG guns save lives

    Never under estimate the "knock down power" of a big gun.

    NO, if he was wearing a vest, it probably would not have killed him, but one hit, center mass from a 45ACP will knock most individuals off their feet.

    Once down, struggling to breath, subjects are much easier to deal with.

    That is why I donít carry a 9mm. Many including Sidestreet, (His Taurus 9 looks like my Taurus 45) like them and they are much cheaper to practice with, but I still prefer my 45.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Never under estimate the "knock down power" of a big gun.

    NO, if he was wearing a vest, it probably would not have killed him, but one hit, center mass from a 45ACP will knock most individuals off their feet.

    Once down, struggling to breath, subjects are much easier to deal with.

    That is why I donít carry a 9mm. Many including Sidestreet, (His Taurus 9 looks like my Taurus 45) like them and they are much cheaper to practice with, but I still prefer my 45.
    Depends on if he's wearing hard or soft armor Taz. The hard armor is getting easier to find at the shows for around 60 bucks a panel.
    I agree with the philosophy though. That's one reason I love my 44's....but you can't count on it.

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