• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Philip on TV with Lori Haas talking about Gun Free Zones

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
She doesn't know what she is talking about. In these cases, 90% of the time, its citizens who stop the shooters, in in CO.

She can yap yap yap all she wants I guess; it will not change anything
 

Betty_Rose_Brown

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
29
Location
Norfolk
She doesn't know what she is talking about. In these cases, 90% of the time, its citizens who stop the shooters, in in CO.

She can yap yap yap all she wants I guess; it will not change anything

Gosh, you'd think a CHURCH would be a "gun free zone."

Thankfully, this church had a parishoner who was armed and ready. BTW, this also happened in Aurora, CO this year. How many of you had heard about this?

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/cr...dAimWc.like&fb_source=home_multiline&start=10

On April 22 of this year a convicted felon, just out of jail, went to an Aurora, Colorado, church and shot and killed a member of the congregation before being killed himself by a congregant carrying a gun.

On July 20, following the horrific shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, President Obama offered his condolences to the victims of the more recent tragedy. "Our time here [on Earth] is limited and it is precious," the president said. "And what matters at the end of the day is not the small things, it’s not the trivial things which so often consume us and our daily lives. It’s about how we choose to treat one another and how we love one another."


Read the rest at the link.

And please share the link with others.
 
Last edited:

1911 Enthusiast

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
77
Location
Heart of Appalachia
A face shot in a darkened theater, screaming patrons obstructing, tear gas canister deployed and general mass confusion? Without undue risk of hitting an innocent movie goer, à la friendly fire?

That would tax the abilities of a trained military "shooter" who typically fires a minimum of 200 rounds per day in a shooting house, let alone your average Joe OC no matter how much range time he gets.

I'm all for PVC's premise but he should have quit while he was ahead before advancing that shoot 'em in the face idea. Wonder if that course of action would have passed the credibility test when he was on the force?
 

WhatTimeIsIt?

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
188
Location
$
I have to admit, that in this situation, a lone open/concealed carrier would probably have been just as screwed as everyone else. Maybe he could get in some lucky shot to the face, but considering all the circumstances that would be highly unlikely. Of course, this doesn't take away from the fact that in other mass shootings, like VA Tech, a lawful carrier could have saved many lives, or that there have been countless mass shootings that have been prevented by legal carriers. It also doesn't change the fact that gun control laws wouldn't have done anything to stop this.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
While we are all "correct" when noting that body shots most likely would not have been lethal because of the armor, we are overlooking a significant part of the concept of "stopping the threat".

It is not necessary to cause the death of the person in order to stop the threat. In fact we seem to take enjoyment from reports of the threat being stopped when the BG merely sees the LAC is in fact armed.

The history of recent mass shootings seems to be that once the shooter encounters any sort of resistance they stop their rampage. Many of them also kill themselves - whether to avoid getting shot or to avoid prosecution we just do not know.

So even in the chaos of this mass shooting there is an at least even chance (in my mind if nowhere else) that a lone GG LAC going up against this shooter might have stopped the shooting. The problem as I see it is we will never know because no GG LAC was given a chance to decide to go up against the shooter or not.

All we know for sure is that when you are unarmed[SUP]1[/SUP] your only choices are to get shot, to run and hope you do not get shot, or to hide and hope you do not get shot.

stay safe.

[SUP]1[/SUP] - I'm not trying to blame anyone, but it helps to realize that it is not just carrying a handgun that makes one armed. One can be effectively armed with a ballpoint pen or with a purse.
 

BillB

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
200
Location
NOVA
I doubt the shooter had a ballistic (bullet resistant) vest. I'll bet he had what's often called a tactical vest. I suspect the press reports about him being heavily armored are largely wrong. More likely he was fully decked out as a mall ninja.
 
Last edited:

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I doubt the shooter had a ballistic (bullet resistant) vest. I'll bet he had what's often called a tactical vest. I suspect the press reports about him being heavily armored are largely wrong. More likely he was fully decked out as a mall ninja.

Fully decked out doesn't make them bulletproof Bill.

Anyway....Philip meets "Look at me Lori":lol:

33w.gif
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Thought my post rather pointedly suggested that - guess I need to be more direct.

It did, I just wasn't being specific for a reason. I don't want to get into a "Train to defeat body armor" thread....so it was I that should have been more direct....
Or maybe just more quiet:lol:
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Another thing Miss Numpty misses is that a considerable portion of the OC community are in fact former police, military, as well as active. Also the so called claim of hitting innocents is not likely unless it is a ricochet. I don't think any of us would stand up and get into a firefight, we would take cover first, and that would put shots at the BG in an upward trajectory. In fact this latest tragedy drives home that sobering fact~when seconds count police are a minute away.
 

ChinChin

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
Its Mental, not Metal.

Blaming a hunk of steel for the evils of the world is the easy way out. It also accomplishes nothing. Addressing the disease of the brain is much harder, but necessary if you are serious about stopping violence. So passing laws focused on an inanimate object is a waste of time with no return on investment. Applied behavior analysis is a more effective tool than enacting laws which will be ignored regardless. It’s a difficult solution to a complex issue which won’t be fixed by simply signing a piece of paper. If such were true then DC, Chicago & New York would be Gardens of Eden with people walking the streets on nighttime strolls with no fear of violent acts.

Lori Haas' only qualification to speak intelligently on this matter is that her son was made to be a victim by the university he attended. I was hit by a golf ball once, but that didn't make me a scratch golfer.
 

riverrat10k

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,472
Location
on a rock in the james river
I have thought a lot about this shooting since it happened.

If I were involved I would have:

1)thrown my wife to the floor

2)dropped down myself and told her to start moving

3)drawn my firearm and continued to crawl with wife toward an exit and/or cover

Note I did not say engage the shooter. Last resort for me. I doubt I would maneuver to engage unless I thought that was my best option for our own survival.

As to the video, I respect PVC in the highest. I was, however, a bit put-off with his statement that (paraphrase) permit holders probably practice more than police.

I bet Peter Nap practices more than I do, and he ain't got no steenkin' permit.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Blaming a hunk of steel for the evils of the world is the easy way out. It also accomplishes nothing. Addressing the disease of the brain is much harder, but necessary if you are serious about stopping violence. So passing laws focused on an inanimate object is a waste of time with no return on investment. Applied behavior analysis is a more effective tool than enacting laws which will be ignored regardless. It’s a difficult solution to a complex issue which won’t be fixed by simply signing a piece of paper. If such were true then DC, Chicago & New York would be Gardens of Eden with people walking the streets on nighttime strolls with no fear of violent acts.

Lori Haas' only qualification to speak intelligently on this matter is that her son was made to be a victim by the university he attended. I was hit by a golf ball once, but that didn't make me a scratch golfer.

It was her daughter ChinChin. You're thinking Of Goddard.
 

Uber_Olafsun

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
583
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, United States
The point I think is we don't know if it would have stopped the shooter or not but not being allowed to carry took away the chance. All we know for sure is no one was armed so their defense methods were hope and pray not try to defend.
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
It's called the failure drill (or Mozambique). If a subject is wearing body armor (or is doped up) and center of mass hits are not effective, you then aim for the head, specifically the face, in the triangular region formed by the eyes and nose, due to the least bone mass that could deflect the bullet (or less common, but still an option, the pelvic bone if it's the only shot available to physically disable the subject) to stop the attack.

.

Actually, what we (well, I) teach now is:

High upper chest (green)
Pelvic girdle (yellow)
Head (red)

....in that order, for various reasons.

Its what I call the "targeting traffic light"
 
Top