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Thread: Denied Access to Oakland Co. Records

  1. #1
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    Denied Access to Oakland Co. Records

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlX_7...ature=youtu.be

    I went into the Oakland County Records Building to get fingerprinted for my out of state Maine CPL.

    This will provide exemption from the Michigan gun free zones listed in MCL 750.234d, and MCL 750.237a.

    I was denied entry to this public building because of a policy that contradicts Michigans preemption law MCL 123.1102.

    The officers were polite and respectful to me while not honoring the law they said they were aware of, and breaking the oath they took to uphold the constitution, protecting it from those domestic enemies that are mentioned within that oath.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Dude the sooner you can get a video recorder the better. Watch your back and stay safe.

    ETA - why do you feel the need to tell them so much? Really all that was needed to be said was I am here for finger prints - period. It is their job to provide them to you. If you want to be an activist, please start heading the advice given here often. Be curtious, but do not say anymore than is absolutely required. I would not be surprised if Maine state police get a 'off the record' call about you in the morning.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-24-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    is the records building associated with the courthouse at all?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    No, it's a quarter mile away.

    The video recorder is deffy on my list. Had to get the CPL cleared up first. Ken recommended this one. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...G&Q=&A=details

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i just drafted this letter to the general information email at the oakland county sheriff's office:

    I am inquiring after information regarding a policy at the Oakland County records building. I'm trying to find out under what authority firearms are banned in the records building. As I understand it MCL 123.1102 states the following:
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    I would like to be contacted by someone who can explain to me why I should follow the rule at the records building and if I decide not to follow the rule, what law violation would I be charged with? Please forward this to the appropriate department that can provide me with an answer. I can be contacted at this email address or the phone number below.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Thumbs up

    Good job, who is going to join him?

    I plan on emailing the Sheriff tomorrow.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    do have a more direct contact for the sheriff himself? or at least his office instead of just a general info email?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    I have contacted him at the following email, and he responded to me directly on one occasion.

    Naturally, when I contacted him about the illegal stop a while back, there was no response, but hey, what good is a thin blue line if you dont use it?

    michaeljbouchard@gmail.com
    Last edited by stainless1911; 07-24-2012 at 09:06 PM.

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    Stainless, given your history with the OCSD, I am honestly not surprised that they don't take you seriously, nor for that matter do I, such as is demonstrated by you having learned so little from your experiences that you didn't even bring a recorder with you for something you knew could be an issue, and running your mouth endlessly in those situations in which you did have one. I don't say that in an attempt to be mean, just honest and clear, and out of an abundance of hope that maybe one day you'll actually head the advice of others here as G9OS said.

    In 2009, after the OCSD badly screwed with me and several others on this forum at the Boston Market incident, Sheriff Bouchard took swift actions to correct the problem, had information on open carrying drafted, and dispensed it to every other Sheriff's department in the state. In addition, he asked that any future issues we come directly to him about.

    I can not, and will not go to him on behalf of stainless, because I couldn't with a straight face try to defend him or his actions, nor will I condemn OCSD actions involving stainless without a recording of the entire incident.

    What I will do, happily, by myself if prudent, or with others if others wish to get involved, is contact Sheriff Bouchard via printed memo about the sign and for clarification about policies. In the mean time, I am open to any and all other suggestions.
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-24-2012 at 09:11 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    They had no idea who I was.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    a search of his email address brought me to this page:
    https://www.facebook.com/mikebouchardforgovernor/info
    something from the page in our favor:
    "He cares deeply about this state and country and puts the constitution first."

    so unless it's just political rhetoric, he should have no problem making the policy change... right?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    .
    I wondered who was going to be the first to tell me I should have stonewalled him with WRR.

    Last edited by stainless1911; 07-24-2012 at 09:15 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Well you can bet if you go back they will all know who you are as I am sure your plate number was taken down. Not bashing you but sometimes you are your own worst enemy stainless. Also by doing what you did you have put the subject of out of state CPLs on their radar

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    a search of his email address brought me to this page:
    so unless it's just political rhetoric, he should have no problem making the policy change... right? [/COLOR]
    I'd hope so, and would again suggest contacting him via a printed and signed memo. There is no need to do anything particularly activisty, or to otherwise cause a commotion. He should be given a chance, via writing to clarify the issue, prior to any other actions.

    In light of the totality of experiences I and others I know have had with OCSD deputies, I have a lot more respect for Sheriff Bouchard than many, if not most of his deputies. Accordingly, I again want it clear I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt before throwing any type of fit.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    you have put the subject of out of state CPLs on their radar
    They screw us whenever they can by twisting the law into what they want it to be, or ignoring it altogether. Play the same game.

    He asked me a simple and direct question, I gave him a simple and direct answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I'd hope so, and would again suggest contacting him via a printed and signed memo. There is no need to do anything particularly activisty, or to otherwise cause a commotion. He should be given a chance, via writing to clarify the issue, prior to any other actions.

    In light of the totality of experiences I and others I know have had with OCSD deputies, I have a lot more respect for Sheriff Bouchard than many, if not most of his deputies. Accordingly, I again want it clear I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt before throwing any type of fit.

    I agree absolutely.

    What concerns me however, is that these types of violations are occurring more and more, and with increasing boldness.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    They screw us whenever they can by twisting the law into what they want it to be, or ignoring it altogether. Play the same game.

    He asked me a simple and direct question, I gave him a simple and direct answer.
    No you gave him / them everything they needed to bend you over and break it off in your rear. Think man!

    I say this not out of malice but as an OCer your actions affect me and the rest of our comunity too.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

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    What did I give him? He has no power in Maine, and the law is very clear on the matter.

    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    237a is written the same way.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 07-24-2012 at 09:31 PM.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Well you can bet if you go back they will all know who you are as I am sure your plate number was taken down. Not bashing you but sometimes you are your own worst enemy stainless. Also by doing what you did you have put the subject of out of state CPLs on their radar

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    If it is "on their radar", so be it. It would have been eventually. I think all of us present information that would be useful for the LEOs to know... at least they would actually learn about what is legal. But, we have never avoided presenting our legal research because someone may actually read it and I would hate for us to start now.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I do believe that G9OS's point can be further described, at least by my version of the same point, by stating that you lack impulse control, as is evident by your posts, and the interactions you've had with government agents, including in this circumstance, because you as usual game them information that was none of their business.

    I again want it clear I say this not to be mean, but because I wish you'd be more careful in your actions.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  21. #21
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    Thanks.

    I thought one of the main functions of us as individuals and of MOC in particular, was to educate not only the public, but LEO about laws related to carrying firearms.

    from the MOC site: (snip)

    The objectives of Michigan Open Carry are:
    To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a handgun in public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I do believe that G9OS's point can be further described, at least by my version of the same point, by stating that you lack impulse control, as is evident by your posts, and the interactions you've had with government agents, including in this circumstance, because you as usual gave them information that was none of their business.

    I again want it clear I say this not to be mean, but because I wish you'd be more careful in your actions.
    I will try harder.

    Bolded part: --> are you saying that because I told them about the law, or because I told them why I wanted the fingerprints?

    If I just told them I wanted fingerprints, I suppose he would have then asked why I wanted them.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I will try harder.

    Bolded part: --> are you saying that because I told them about the law, or because I told them why I wanted the fingerprints?

    If I just told them I wanted fingerprints, I suppose he would have then asked why I wanted them.
    Then you just say under MCL it is my right as a law abiding citizen to obtain a copy of them is it not?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-24-2012 at 10:09 PM.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Then you just say under MCL it is my right as a law abiding citizen to obtain a copy of them is it not? If they give you crap, just smile and ask to speak with a supervisor. If you want to give them an explanation (which it is none of their damn business) you could said it for an pre-screening / background check. Which is the truth. If they go further simply say officer I was unaware an interigation was part of getting my finger prints taken , for which I am doing lawfully and will pay the fee for the public service your office is supposed to provide.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!


    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-24-2012 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    I would like to be contacted by someone who can explain to me why I should follow the rule at the records building and if I decide not to follow the rule, what law violation would I be charged with?
    Not the friendliest email ever written. Hopefully they respond and don't just delete it. I've always made the opening email very friendly to encourage a response. Allow them the chance to say they made a mistake, or admit the sign is "correct". After they've admitted in the email the sign is "lawful" in their eyes(and you have written proof the higher ups are knowingly violating 123.1102), then ramp up the forcefulness. At least, that's how I'd do it.

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