No Guns at Movie Theatre

clayton · Jul 24, 2012

I went to see a movie tonight and was surprised to see big signs stating the fire arms were prohibited in the movie theater. My wife's purse was also searched for guns and other weapons. I asked if the clerk thought that our individual and constitutional rights were being were being violated. She said that it's private property and they could do what they wanted in regards to this. She also said that she asked a cop and he told her it was okay. I want to know what you all think about this.

kcgunfan · Jul 24, 2012

They are right, of course, and you may exercise your right not to spend money there if you don't agree to their terms.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

MAC702 · Jul 24, 2012

They are private property. You don't have those "rights" on their property. Many of us are prepared to tell a business to go to hell before subjecting ourselves to a search. If they make such a policy, and you give them your money anyway, well, they win.

davidmcbeth · Jul 25, 2012

MAC702 said:
Many of us are prepared to tell a business to go to hell before subjecting ourselves to a search. .

That's my viewpoint ! I even refuse to be a patron of any business that posts election signs of candidates who are anti-gun ... and I let them know why I am not stepping into the business & if they have a good reason and remove the signs, I'll continue to be their customer (sometimes a campaign worker just asks and they say sure, anyone can put signs up)

Gil223 · Jul 25, 2012

clayton said:
I went to see a movie tonight and was surprised to see big signs stating the fire arms were prohibited in the movie theater. My wife's purse was also searched for guns and other weapons. I asked if the clerk thought that our individual and constitutional rights were being were being violated. She said that it's private property and they could do what they wanted in regards to this. She also said that she asked a cop and he told her it was okay. I want to know what you all think about this.

Maybe you should have asked to see their search warrant. If their theater, which is open to the paying public is "private property", your person and personal effects should be even more private since those things are not open to the public... not even for a price. Just my thoughts. Pax...

Gil223 · Jul 25, 2012

About the POLL question...

CAN THEY? If not, somebody forgot to tell the Aurora shooter. Even if posted, guns CAN be taken into a movie theater. Is carrying a gun in a theater unlawful? I would think that depends on where you live. SHOULD a gun be taken into a movie theater? The Aurora shootings make an excellent case FOR doing just that. In that instance OC says, "Oops...BUSTED!", while CC says, "What they don't know won't hurt them... but it may be necessary!"

Pax...

McX · Jul 25, 2012

clayton said:
I went to see a movie tonight and was surprised to see big signs stating the fire arms were prohibited in the movie theater. My wife's purse was also searched for guns and other weapons. I asked if the clerk thought that our individual and constitutional rights were being were being violated. She said that it's private property and they could do what they wanted in regards to this. She also said that she asked a cop and he told her it was okay. I want to know what you all think about this.

cops are such experts on the rights of citizens.

carracer · Jul 25, 2012

Gil223 said:
CAN THEY? If not, somebody forgot to tell the Aurora shooter. Even if posted, guns CAN be taken into a movie theater. Is carrying a gun in a theater unlawful? I would think that depends on where you live. SHOULD a gun be taken into a movie theater? The Aurora shootings make an excellent case FOR doing just that. In that instance OC says, "Oops...BUSTED!", while CC says, "What they don't know won't hurt them... but it may be necessary!" Pax...

My thoughts exactly. Question need some clarification or restated.

tcox4freedom · Jul 25, 2012

MAC702 said:
They are private property. You don't have those "rights" on their property. Many of us are prepared to tell a business to go to hell before subjecting ourselves to a search. If they make such a policy, and you give them your money anyway, well, they win.

^^^THIS^^^

I carry in movie theaters that are NOT posted & refuse to do business with those that are.

tcox4freedom · Jul 25, 2012

carracer said:
My thoughts exactly. Question need some clarification or restated.

^^^ This too ^^^

clayton · Jul 25, 2012

kcgunfan said:
They are right, of course, and you may exercise your right not to spend money there if you don't agree to their terms.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

In Utah we have a universal carry law that states that you can't carry in several places including places of worship, government buildings, school zones, a residence without permission. How does our laws and constitutional liberties establish that we cannot carry in a place of business - just because they ask. I know that some businesses ask that no guns pass through their doors, but how is this legal?

Deepdiver36 · Jul 26, 2012

clayton said:
In Utah we have a universal carry law that states that you can't carry in several places including places of worship, government buildings, school zones, a residence without permission. How does our laws and constitutional liberties establish that we cannot carry in a place of business - just because they ask. I know that some businesses ask that no guns pass through their doors, but how is this legal?

A few basic concepts need to be understood about Utah laws, the Bill of Rights and private property.

First, Utah law is dismissive. Unless a law says you can't do something, then it is legal. The Utah uniform firearms laws is not dismissive of private property rights, therefore, they can issue any policy regarding firearms they wish.

Second, the Bill of Rights apply to government entities and not private properties. Generally speaking, you have no rights on private property.

Lastly, with a few exceptions, a private property owner/business can refuse service to anyone. Firearms owners/carriers are not a protected class.

So to answer your question on how is this legal, well, let's just say it's not illegal. Take your $$ elsewhere.

MAC702 · Jul 26, 2012

clayton said:
In Utah we have a universal carry law that states that you can't carry in several places including places of worship, government buildings, school zones, a residence without permission...

Not quite.

You do not need permission, but for residences and churches, if you are told you cannot carry, then it has weight of law in UT. If you have not been told no, you do not need to ask for permission in order to be legal.

Private businesses do not enjoy the weight of law to their "no guns" policies.

tryintogetit · Jul 26, 2012

The Result

clayton said:
In Utah we have a universal carry law that states that you can't carry in several places including places of worship, government buildings, school zones, a residence without permission. How does our laws and constitutional liberties establish that we cannot carry in a place of business - just because they ask. I know that some businesses ask that no guns pass through their doors, but how is this legal?

The only thing you may be charged with is Trespassing if you chose not to leave voluntarily, I just won't spend money at the no-guns theaters here.

MKEgal · Jul 26, 2012

clayton said:
I want to know what you all think about this.

I think I would have gone to a different theater.

she asked a cop and he told her it was okay

:banghead:
Why do people persist in thinking that cops know anything about laws?
Traffic laws & even common criminal laws, generally, yes.
But civil rights stuff, no.
Across the country, they've proven time & again that it means nothing to them.

it's private property and they could do what they wanted

Pretty much.
While RKBA is a Constitutionally protected civil right, it's not protected as well as other civil rights or states of being.
A company can turn away LACs, but isn't allowed to discriminate against customers based on their (perceived or real) race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, sex...
Oh, wait -

My wife's purse was also searched for guns and other weapons.

Were any men searched? At all? Patted down, asked to empty their pockets?
If not, that's clearly sex discrimination, and that is illegal.

Let's look at the applicable bits of the Utah Code.

Title 13: Commerce & Trade
Section 7: Civil Rights
Chapter 3: Equal right in business establishments, places of public accommodation, and enterprises regulated by the state
13-7-3
All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal and are entitled to full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, goods and services in all business establishments and in all places of public accommodation, and by all enterprises regulated by the state of every kind whatsoever, without discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, ancestry or national origin.
Nothing in this act shall be construed to deny any person the right to regulate the operation of a business establishment or place of public accommodation or an enterprise regulated by the state in a manner which applies uniformly to all persons without regard to race, color, sex, religion, ancestry, or national origin; or to deny any religious organization the right to regulate the operation and procedures of its establishments.

And the next section:

13-7-4
Business establishment, place of public accommodation, or enterprise regulated by the state denying rights deemed public nuisance -- Investigation and conciliation -- Action to enjoin -- Civil action for damages -- Expenses of defending action.
Any business establishment or place of public accommodation or enterprise regulated by the state in which a violation of the rights provided in Section 13-7-3 of this chapter occurs is a public nuisance.
The operator of any such business establishment or place of public accommodation or enterprise regulated by the state is guilty of maintaining a public nuisance and may be enjoined as hereinafter provided.

(1) Upon application to the attorney general by any person denied the rights guaranteed by Section 13-7-3, the attorney general shall investigate and seek to conciliate the matter.

(2) An action to enjoin any nuisance defined in this section may be brought in the name of the state of Utah by the attorney general. Upon the trial of the cause, on finding that the material allegations of the complaint are true, the court shall order such nuisance to be abated, and enjoin all persons from maintaining or permitting such nuisance. When any injunction as herein provided has been granted it shall be binding upon the defendant and shall act as an injunction in personam against the defendant throughout the state.

(3) Any person who is denied the rights provided for in Section 13-7-3 shall have a civil action for damages and any other remedy available in law or equity against any person who denies him the rights provided for in Section 13-7-3 or who aids, incites or conspires to bring about such denial.

(4) Any business establishment or place of public accommodation or enterprises regulated by the state charged with maintaining a public nuisance in violation of this chapter, which is determined or found not to be in violation of this chapter, may be awarded all actual and necessary expenses incurred in defending such action, as determined and approved by the court having jurisdiction of the matter.

So it looks like not only the theater owner, but the employee who actually rooted around in your wife's purse can be held liable.
Here's the contact page for the Utah Attorney General.

94 at Large · Jul 27, 2012

Here in NC we can't carry in any establishment that charges admission. So, movie theaters are verbotten.

Gil223 · Jul 27, 2012

94 at Large said:
Here in NC we can't carry in any establishment that charges admission. So, movie theaters are verbotten.

How silly is that law?? Do (ABC controlled) bars in NC charge admission? Can you carry in a place that serves alcohol? I would think that would be much more dangerous than packing while watching Nemo on the big screen. Pax...

Gil223 · Jul 28, 2012

Intermediate Poll Results

90% + 20% = 110%... is this the "new math" at work? Where I went to school it would be 82% to 18% (rounded).

Pax...

ProbablyTaken · Nov 7, 2012

tryintogetit said:
The only thing you may be charged with is Trespassing if you chose not to leave voluntarily, I just won't spend money at the no-guns theaters here.

The theater chain he was speaking of is almost certainly Megaplex, after them the options get thinner. Here in the Salt Lake Valley, there are only maybe 4 theaters that aren't "Dollar Movies" .

Worst Megaplex can do is kick you out if they discover your weapon. The choice is yours.

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