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Corporate Liability

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Let's take this a little further...what is the rational basis for the theater's no gun policy? Given all the instances of public and workplace violence in recent decades, what is the evidence for restricting gun that the theater used when they formulated their policy? How often do they review their safety policies in light of contemporary events (violence, theft, fire, etc.)?

Personally, I think that would be the route to get something like that in court...

Good question....but I would say they don't have to have a rational basis...it's their property...they can control a lot, including what can be worn on the property. They can ban clothes if they wanted too...however, if the local ordinances say otherwise, then they are in trouble.
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
See my remarks (the potential company's arguments) in blue.

Great discussion.

Disclosure...IANAL.

Your whole argument is that a gunman shooting up a theater, school, post office or a political rally is something that couldn't happen and the very thought of it happening makes it so we don't have to think about it. I submit that I could give you atleast 12 major incidents in the USA every year, atleast one per month of someone killing strangers while going about their day.

Why wear a seatbelt? I don't expect or plan to get into an accident. If you get into my car and I don't allow you to use the seatbelt and I get into an accident injuring you then you have a right to hold me accountable as the car owner and driver.

If I as a property owner prevent you from wearing shoes and you step on a rust nail in my yard then my insurance will end up paying; why because I'm responsible for my property and the safety of those that I have on it. The theater is no different they are responsiable for my safety, expecially when they prevent me from securing my own safety within the law all for politics and money.
 

Redbaron007

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Sep 10, 2011
Messages
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SW MO
Your whole argument is that a gunman shooting up a theater, school, post office or a political rally is something that couldn't happen and the very thought of it happening makes it so we don't have to think about it. I submit that I could give you atleast 12 major incidents in the USA every year, atleast one per month of someone killing strangers while going about their day. You have to submit those circumstances of a lone gunman, with multilple weapons, shooting up a theater. Violence is one thing, a mass murdering such as this, is a different fellow. If the judge allowed it in, I don't think he would since it would have any correlation, unless you did provide circumstances of similar happenings.

Why wear a seatbelt? I don't expect or plan to get into an accident. If you get into my car and I don't allow you to use the seatbelt and I get into an accident injuring you then you have a right to hold me accountable as the car owner and driver. No comparison.....not even a good straw argument.

If I as a property owner prevent you from wearing shoes and you step on a rust nail in my yard then my insurance will end up paying; why because I'm responsible for my property and the safety of those that I have on it. The theater is no different they are responsiable for my safety, expecially when they prevent me from securing my own safety within the law all for politics and money. Just because someone is on your property doesn't make you responsible for them. This is a common misconception. However, if you had knowledge there could be rusty nails (you just tore down an old barn and had not thoroughly cleaned everything up) on the property, then you may have some liability. Trust me, your insurance company would be thinking along these same lines before making any payment.

See me in blue.
 

carolina guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
1,737
Location
Concord, NC
Your whole argument is that a gunman shooting up a theater, school, post office or a political rally is something that couldn't happen and the very thought of it happening makes it so we don't have to think about it. I submit that I could give you atleast 12 major incidents in the USA every year, atleast one per month of someone killing strangers while going about their day.

Why wear a seatbelt? I don't expect or plan to get into an accident. If you get into my car and I don't allow you to use the seatbelt and I get into an accident injuring you then you have a right to hold me accountable as the car owner and driver.

If I as a property owner prevent you from wearing shoes and you step on a rust nail in my yard then my insurance will end up paying; why because I'm responsible for my property and the safety of those that I have on it. The theater is no different they are responsiable for my safety, expecially when they prevent me from securing my own safety within the law all for politics and money.

Wonder how hard it would be to dig up some stats:

% likelihood of being in an accident per (vehicle mile traveled or per vehicle or per person) and does it increase/decrease with seat belt use?

% likelihood of a business being involved in violence armed v. unarmed per (customer served or per year) with or without a gun free policy?
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Wonder how hard it would be to dig up some stats:

% likelihood of being in an accident per (vehicle mile traveled or per vehicle or per person) and does it increase/decrease with seat belt use?

% likelihood of a business being involved in violence armed v. unarmed per (customer served or per year) with or without a gun free policy?

I guess I being involved with one of these incidents I'm a little more sensitive. I worked in a hospital when a gunman walked through the hospital killing people, guess what nobody could fight back all though one guy started chasing after the gunman with a scalple. I followed him thinking I would be safe.

Noobody could have guessed this would happen but it did in a hospital at Fairchild AFB, WA in 1994 and I lost a lot of friends that day.

Just because it isn't forseen doesn't take away someones responsiability.

If your pistol goes off and hurts someone even while on safe and holstered, I'm sure you still would be held accountable. You might go after the gun manifacture but the cops and the person that got hurt would go after you.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Wonder how hard it would be to dig up some stats:

% likelihood of being in an accident per (vehicle mile traveled or per vehicle or per person) and does it increase/decrease with seat belt use?

% likelihood of a business being involved in violence armed v. unarmed per (customer served or per year) with or without a gun free policy?

At best it would be a theory. Convincing a judge to allow it as credible evidence is another question.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
I guess I being involved with one of these incidents I'm a little more sensitive. I worked in a hospital when a gunman walked through the hospital killing people, guess what nobody could fight back all though one guy started chasing after the gunman with a scalple. I followed him thinking I would be safe.

Noobody could have guessed this would happen but it did in a hospital at Fairchild AFB, WA in 1994 and I lost a lot of friends that day.

Just because it isn't forseen doesn't take away someones responsiability.

If your pistol goes off and hurts someone even while on safe and holstered, I'm sure you still would be held accountable. You might go after the gun manifacture but the cops and the person that got hurt would go after you.

I can see where you would be a little more sensitive to these and don't question it. I'm sorry for your loss! I can't imagine what it must have been like.

There is a difference between a moral responsibility and legal responsibility. Using the courts for a moral responsibility doesn't usually work. The courts are used for the legal responsibility.

Allow me to use your rusty nail example earlier. Let's say you have never had any construction or demolition in your back yard for the last 20 years you've lived there. You have some friends over and their child is playing in the back yard. This child runs bare footed and cuts their foot open on a rusty nail. Now, morally, one would 'feel' some responsibility because of what happened. However, legally, are you responsible..prolly not. You had no idea the nail was there....more than likely, if you knew it was there, you would have taken measures to remove it or at least warn the guests of its location. So, if the parents sued you (anyone can sue for anything) for the medical bills because you were negligent, they would have to prove you were aware of the danger that was present and did nothing to prevent it from damaging their child. If you were not aware of something, how can you be legally responsible for it?

This example above is why many Home Insurance policies have a Medical Payments coverage; to help out with medical bills for these moral circumstances. If they didn't, it is highly probable your insurance carrier would deny coverage because you were not legally liable for the injury. There could be many different other variables that could come into play, but this is speaking generally.
 
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