Don't worry I have been legally carrying my knife around for years know sadly it can only be my pocket knife so the throwing knives stay at the house :lol:
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Unaccompanied Minor open carrying a black powder revolver?
- Thread starter amorse1
- Start date
Don't worry I have been legally carrying my knife around for years know sadly it can only be my pocket knife so the throwing knives stay at the house :lol:
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
OC pistol in Arizona: 18 Black powder (no presently mgfg cartridge) doesn't come under GCA '68... no 4473 form needed. However... 'far as I can determina and ever recall... 18 was the minimum age 'on our own'. Other than that you need a parent. I've seen 13 yr old girls open carry pistols with their Dad along (in public).
Nascar24Glock
Regular Member
Actually, I've just checked the statutes. You MIGHT be able to carry that black powder handgun...to an extent.
Here's the relevant law
"13-3111 A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian."
The bolded and underlined portion might be your loophole. Basically, as I'm reading it, you can carry that black powder handgun IF YOUR PARENT(S) ACCOMPANY YOU (I wouldn't carry the 1911; you still have Federal law to worry about; as I understand it, Federal law excludes antiques, but requires that minors possessing non-antique firearms have their parent's consent WHILE ENGAGING IN SPECIFIED ACTIVITIES, none of which apply to this situation). However, if you choose to carry this way, your parents had better be with you at all times! If you get nature's call, your father had better accompany you to the restroom (I'm assuming you're a guy; if you're a gal, replace "father" with "mother"). If your parents are in aisle 5 at Wal-mart, don't go get something in aisle 4. Bottomline, you had better stay right by their side!
Also, keep something in mind. You WILL be a test case for this, and the stakes are high. Subsection H reads: "A person who violates subsection A is guilty of a class 6 felony." So, if you're tried as an adult, you may get a felony conviction and lose your right to bear arms. Even if you're adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent, your ability to get a handgun carry permit later may be impaired (since many states also disqualify those who were adjudicated as delinquent for offenses that would be a felony if committed by an adult). So, think about it before proceeding!
Disclaimer (sorry, it may sound redundant; but, in today's litigous society, I've got to include it): I am not a lawyer. None of the above is, or should be construed as legal advice. Let me also add that, if you think that you want to try carrying this way, CHECK WITH A REAL LAWYER FIRST! Don't ask any police officer. Many know the law just well enough to "book 'em" and let the DA sort it out. Also, if a police officer gives you bad legal advice, he is not liable for it. At least you can sue a lawyer for giving bad legal advice.
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azcdlfred
Regular Member
I didn't jump in this thread because I've been swamped dealing with AzCDL business primarily from our latest raffle of a Ruger plus a silencer plus AzCDL pays the federal tax stamp (Check our our online store).
I appreciate the comments about "the experts at AzCDL." I'm no expert but I'll toss my 2 cents in.
Looking at the thread, it seems the underlying issue is a 16 year old openly carrying a gun?
ARS 13-3102 deals with weapons misconduct (what you can't do with a gun) and subsection B3 deals with the under 21 folks.
As amorse1 pointed out ARS 13-3111 addresses kids under 18 possessing fireams and requires parents or guardians nearby. I guess you can interpret that to mean a 16 year old can strap on a firearm openly while walking around in public with parents, but the prospect of a Class 6 felony arrest (subsection H) doesn't sound like a bet worth making.
Whether the gun is black powder or the latest gee-whiz semi-auto doesn't change anything.
I apologize in advance for this hit-and-run post, but I am swamped with work.
Fred
AzCDL
I appreciate the comments about "the experts at AzCDL." I'm no expert but I'll toss my 2 cents in.
Looking at the thread, it seems the underlying issue is a 16 year old openly carrying a gun?
ARS 13-3102 deals with weapons misconduct (what you can't do with a gun) and subsection B3 deals with the under 21 folks.
As amorse1 pointed out ARS 13-3111 addresses kids under 18 possessing fireams and requires parents or guardians nearby. I guess you can interpret that to mean a 16 year old can strap on a firearm openly while walking around in public with parents, but the prospect of a Class 6 felony arrest (subsection H) doesn't sound like a bet worth making.
Whether the gun is black powder or the latest gee-whiz semi-auto doesn't change anything.
I apologize in advance for this hit-and-run post, but I am swamped with work.
Fred
AzCDL
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Yeah I will just wait till I'm 18, because having a class 6 felony on my application to Dartmouth and Cornell won't look to good.:uhoh: Just gotta make the choice to stick with my knife plastered to my belt, but if it comes to a shooter I will just have to play dead. Thanks everyone for the advice and information. The good news is my parents are going to have their guns plastered to their hips from now on so I will just stick with them. Also one final legal question, my dad has been following this thread with me and he was thinking what if he carried a second gun on him and he said if a situation breaks out where a gun would be necessary he could just toss me the second one for my personal defense as well. Would I be allowed to carry extra magazines if it was a semi-auto?
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Va subscribes to the Doctrine of the Competing Harms - don't know if Arizona does. Basically what that doctrine says in layman's terms is that with a compelling reason an unlawful act may excused when a greater harm would otherwise have occurred. Thing of it is, you have to admit to the wrongs first......then justify your actions.
See the problems here?
Now if your dad and/or your mom choose to carry two guns (legal in AZ?) each - I'm sure most courts would not hold that against them and if a serious need, doubt they would fault you for using one to benefit all concerned. Too I wouldn't foresee a problem with your being an ammo bearer for them. But then, I'm not an attorney nor your judge.
Dang you younguns do grow up fast these days.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Va subscribes to the Doctrine of the Competing Harms - don't know if Arizona does. Basically what that doctrine says in layman's terms is that with a compelling reason an unlawful act may excused when a greater harm would otherwise have occurred. Thing of it is, you have to admit to the wrongs first......then justify your actions.
See the problems here?
Now if your dad and/or your mom choose to carry two guns (legal in AZ?) each - I'm sure most courts would not hold that against them and if a serious need, doubt they would fault you for using one to benefit all concerned. Too I wouldn't foresee a problem with your being an ammo bearer for them. But then, I'm not an attorney nor your judge.
Dang you younguns do grow up fast these days.
Grape there is a court ruling on this which confirms your post, I am just to lazy today to look it up.
guywithguns
New member
AZ Law
I was born and raised in AZ and am very familiar with the guns laws. In order to own ANY hand gun you have to be 21 yrs old. For shotguns and rifles you can be 18 to purchase/own. They do not give any special permissions for minors to own/carry a gun. They are leanit if you are out hunting but it depends on the cop. Even since it is an ancient gun that still doesn't change the matter. If they see you with it and check and see that it's in your dad's name, you both can be arrested with some heavy fines and the gun will destroyed.
Hope that helps
I was born and raised in AZ and am very familiar with the guns laws. In order to own ANY hand gun you have to be 21 yrs old. For shotguns and rifles you can be 18 to purchase/own. They do not give any special permissions for minors to own/carry a gun. They are leanit if you are out hunting but it depends on the cop. Even since it is an ancient gun that still doesn't change the matter. If they see you with it and check and see that it's in your dad's name, you both can be arrested with some heavy fines and the gun will destroyed.
Hope that helps
guywithguns
New member
You really missed the boat on the applicable laws on this! The only correct information you provided is regarding long guns. All of the other is erroneous.
http://azccwpermit.com/?p=73
Your lack of knowledge is frankly appalling.
Sorry, pal, but much of what you just posted was wrong. Instead of correcting it for you, please look up the actual laws you think you know. It is actually a requirement of this board that you cite the law when saying what we can't do.
BTW, how does a cop check to see who's 'name it is in?'
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
Uh... everything past the first sentence: No!
mzbk2l
Regular Member
Welcome to OCDO! Hope you stick around and do some reading... it'll help in the future when you want to offer advice or argue your position. I agree with the others; almost nothing you posted is correct for AZ, but this is a great place to learn what IS correct.
Phoenix David
Regular Member
amores1 -
Probably a better decision to wait till your majority, yeah it sucks but but probably best.
Probably a better decision to wait till your majority, yeah it sucks but but probably best.
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Phoenix David
Regular Member
Don't see why not as you would be under supervision.
Other than square range work have you or your folks taken any additional training?
Personally I feel sense I will be mostly with my parents everywhere I go, because they are usually with me I would feel protected (they will be carrying). I don't want to need to challenge any LEO's. I am not some punk kid that is trying to show that he knows more rules than the cops. I want to set the example that sometimes you have to wait. Imagine as a bystander watching a cop taking a 16 year old kid aside who is carrying a gun, my impression would be some kid is wanting to be some wild west killer playing with his daddy's guns.
And on the regards of other training I have found most serious classes require you be at least 18. My dad is highly trained on defense (Army Sniper as well as being a crack shot with his Smith and Wesson as well) so I am relying on him teaching me the proper way of how to properly handle a situation that involves me drawing my gun (which is all hypothetical till I'm 18). My mom is taking some classes at the Scottsdale Gun Club with the ladies and I feel that they are a group of highly trained professionals. Thanks everyone.
And on the regards of other training I have found most serious classes require you be at least 18. My dad is highly trained on defense (Army Sniper as well as being a crack shot with his Smith and Wesson as well) so I am relying on him teaching me the proper way of how to properly handle a situation that involves me drawing my gun (which is all hypothetical till I'm 18). My mom is taking some classes at the Scottsdale Gun Club with the ladies and I feel that they are a group of highly trained professionals. Thanks everyone.
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On the same subject just under different circumstances could I open carry while hunting ALONE in an area where it is non-public and hunting is legal. I would still be packing an 1851 colt navy .44 black powder revolver. If your wondering I will be going after rabbits, and rattlers (my friend saved my life when I nearly stepped on one that was positioned to strike and he hacked it on the head with a stick). So do you guys think it would be fine if I was open carrying when legally going after game without my parent.
Personally I feel sense I will be mostly with my parents everywhere I go, because they are usually with me I would feel protected (they will be carrying). I don't want to need to challenge any LEO's. I am not some punk kid that is trying to show that he knows more rules than the cops. I want to set the example that sometimes you have to wait. Imagine as a bystander watching a cop taking a 16 year old kid aside who is carrying a gun, my impression would be some kid is wanting to be some wild west killer playing with his daddy's guns.
And on the regards of other training I have found most serious classes require you be at least 18. My dad is highly trained on defense (Army Sniper as well as being a crack shot with his Smith and Wesson as well) so I am relying on him teaching me the proper way of how to properly handle a situation that involves me drawing my gun (which is all hypothetical till I'm 18). My mom is taking some classes at the Scottsdale Gun Club with the ladies and I feel that they are a group of highly trained professionals. Thanks everyone.
Your dad's experience and knowledge are great resources for training safety and marksmanship, but not for the laws in your state.
Insofar as can you carry when hunting on private land (presume not your own) - what does the law say and what are the hunting regulations? Those are the better questions. Have you researched these at all?