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Thread: IBD: The Right To Shoot Back: Another "Gun-Free-Zone" Fail

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    Regular Member Freiheit417's Avatar
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    IBD: The Right To Shoot Back: Another "Gun-Free-Zone" Fail

    America, where freedom* reigns.

    *Freedom subject to change depending on jurisdiction and availability. Some freedoms may not be available due to local political expedience or prevailing political correctness. Please check Federal, State, County, City, or any other special district for applicable laws governing the extents of freedoms prior to purchase.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Comparison fail. The two situations are extremely different.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Comparison fail. The two situations are extremely different.

    Which "two" situations? Several were mentioned.

    And while you are at it, would yu please help me understand why you think there is a difference? Just saying so does not help me understand what you are trying to get at.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Similarities
    Armed individuals attempted to force their will on others

    Differences
    In one the obvious intention was to terrorize, wound, maim and kill
    In the other the initial intention was robbery, what might have happened to any witnesses is unknown. It's not unknown for robbers to kill witnesses or just shoot for the hell of it.

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    Regular Member Freiheit417's Avatar
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    "A witness who was inside the store at the time of the shooting told police a man entered the store with a gun and demanded money. The witness said that once the man got the money, he shot Ghazal in the chest and left."

    http://articles.courant.com/2012-06-...-gunshot-wound

    Truly senseless.

    One never knows whether a robber is just a thief or a cold-blooded murderer.
    America, where freedom* reigns.

    *Freedom subject to change depending on jurisdiction and availability. Some freedoms may not be available due to local political expedience or prevailing political correctness. Please check Federal, State, County, City, or any other special district for applicable laws governing the extents of freedoms prior to purchase.

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    “What you see is the fringe of the fringe showing up in Hartford today." - Danny Malloy a.k.a. "The Governor" 3/11/2013

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Which "two" situations? Several were mentioned.

    And while you are at it, would yu please help me understand why you think there is a difference? Just saying so does not help me understand what you are trying to get at.

    stay safe.
    The two situations in the image. They're different for a number of reasons. In Colorado, the man threw tear gar canisters then immediately opened fire on the crowd. In Florida, two men, one with a bat and another with a rusted, broken gun attempted an armed robbery of an internet cafe.

    Two very different situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freiheit417 View Post
    One never knows whether a robber is just a thief or a cold-blooded murderer.
    This is irrelevant, the argument isn't whether or not the man in Florida should have acted(he should have and did), the argument is whether the two situations are identical. They're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Which "two" situations? Several were mentioned.

    And while you are at it, would yu please help me understand why you think there is a difference? Just saying so does not help me understand what you are trying to get at.

    stay safe.
    I would say the "two" in the picture is a comparison fail. Armed robbery vs planned massacre are two completely things. A better comparison would have been the SLC mall incident vs Aurora. In SLC 5 people died before the shooter was taken out thanks to someone (a police officer) being armed and shooting the bad guy. To do a comparison one should compare things as close as possible (armed robbery where people don't have weapons vs where they do, or mass murder where people do/don't have weapons).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I would say the "two" in the picture is a comparison fail.
    Armed robbers don't shoot people? They certainly do. The goals of the two groups may be different but the premise of the comparison is not the crime being committed but the fact that in 1 scenario the lawful group was armed and in the second, not.

    Otherwise, one would have to look to Waco as a second one as a comparison but in this instance it was the government who were the "terrorists" and the Davidians were able to stop their assault and hold out for a considerable period of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Armed robbers don't shoot people? They certainly do. The goals of the two groups may be different but the premise of the comparison is not the crime being committed but the fact that in 1 scenario the lawful group was armed and in the second, not.

    Otherwise, one would have to look to Waco as a second one as a comparison but in this instance it was the government who were the "terrorists" and the Davidians were able to stop their assault and hold out for a considerable period of time.
    Did I say armed robbers don't shoot people? Why no, no I didn't. I said that a planned massacre is different than an armed robbery. In an armed robbery the bad guys might shoot someone, and they might even plan on shooting a few people (such as guards). That is still very different than where the whole plan is to go in and kill as many people as possible.

    And no, one wouldn't have to look at Waco as a second comparison. There's plenty of incidents where the victims of a massacre were armed and plenty where they weren't. And it is those examples that should be compared. Not one crime compared to a completely different crime that has a completely different goal.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 07-26-2012 at 04:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Did I say armed robbers don't shoot people? Why no, no I didn't. .
    OK, but there is one thing that is very similar to the two cases ... they are recent. So to go back 15 yrs for another similar case loses the presenters "flavor" wishing to be communicated.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Wow, right from Aurora to the UN ATT in 26 words, no segway required.

    regarding the premise of the article cited in the OP, the consistent theme in just about every 'mass shooting' is that lawfully armed citizens, where present, have and can stop further loss of life when nutjobs go nuts.

    Oh, Waco is not comparable. Even though the gubmint did it wrong six ways from Sunday, the adult Branch Davidians are to be held equally responsible for the deaths of the children in the compound. The only victims at Waco in my view.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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