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Thread: President Speaks out Against Guns

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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    President Speaks out Against Guns

    Apparently, someone interprets the 2nd Amendment as for hunting use only. In lieu of the recent attack on a theater that denies its patrons the right to defend themselves, our potus won't let this tragedy go to waste.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ech/?hpt=hp_c1

    "I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals," Obama said.

    I am a gun owner and strongly disagree with this statement. Our soldiers carry M4's/M16's, only enemy soldiers carry AK-47's, I'd rather them carry slingshots.

    An AK-47 is translates to Avtomat Kalashnikova or AUTOMATIC Kalashnikova (the designers last name) and 47- the year it was designed. Mentally suitable law abiding citizens must undergo a lengthy FFL process of interviews, psychoanalysis, background checks etc to own an AUTOMATIC anything... I'm sure he knows this already being so involved and understanding of gun owners. I'm surely glad he didn't mention WASR-10's or any other AK variants
    Last edited by The Airframer; 07-26-2012 at 08:49 AM.
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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Im not sure what to think. Its said obama hasn't really addressed the issue, but I've heard he's planning on signing the un small arms treaty. The statement made by Romney about not controlling guns but controlling criminals, if truthful, is kind of a breath of fresh air.

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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    I don't envision any action being taken until after the election. If we are unlucky enough to see him serve another term, prepare for the reinstatement of the AWB, the signing of the ATT, forget about legally acquiring foreign made firearms/ammo, and prepare to enter all of your firearms by serial number into the UN's small arms registry.

    For any action to be taken in that direction before the election would be a forfeit in the race and he knows this.
    Last edited by The Airframer; 07-26-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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    On the interview with Brian Williams, Romney was asked straight out if he still felt that assault rifles should be illegal and he flat out didn't answer the question.

    Actually the Pres. didn't speak out against guns, only guns in the hand of criminals or crazy folks.

    “I think a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals,” he said.

    “I believe the majority of gun owners agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons," the president said. "That we should check out a person’s criminal record before they can check out at a gun store. That a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily.”
    Last edited by beebobby; 07-26-2012 at 10:29 AM.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    On the interview with Brian Williams, Romney was asked straight out if he still felt that assault rifles should be illegal and he flat out didn't answer the question.

    Actually the Pres. didn't speak out against guns, only guns in the hand of criminals or crazy folks.

    “I think a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals,” he said.

    “I believe the majority of gun owners agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons," the president said. "That we should check out a person’s criminal record before they can check out at a gun store. That a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily.”
    This is my big problem with that statement. There ARE many possible things the would keep more criminals from having guns. How much of your freedom are you willing to exchance to pay for those things?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post

    “I believe the majority of gun owners agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons," the president said. "That we should check out a person’s criminal record before they can check out at a gun store. That a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily.”

    In reference to that psycho James Holmes. The background checks he's suggesting are already done and if a speeding ticket would have prevented Holmes from buying guns than I'm sure about 90% of Americans would be disqualified to purchase a firearm, least I know i would be-- I have a heavy foot and a grand total of 3 speeding tickets on my extensive criminal background! Better watch out for this guy!

    Holmes was not a fugitive, criminal, nor a documented mentally ill individual until he walked into that theater and started mowing down unarmed innocent people in spite of the mandatory background checks done on him before he legally purchased the firearms he used.

    Call it what you want, I see it as a subtle warning of legislation to come. He wouldn't have spoken about the issue if he just planned on using the background checks already in place.
    Last edited by The Airframer; 07-26-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    This is my big problem with that statement. There ARE many possible things the would keep more criminals from having guns. How much of your freedom are you willing to exchance to pay for those things?
    Anyone see that he's possibly implying that a psychological evaluation be performed on you before you "check out at a gun store"?
    Last edited by The Airframer; 07-26-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post

    “I think a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals,” he said.

    “I believe the majority of gun owners agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons," the president said. "That we should check out a person’s criminal record before they can check out at a gun store. That a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily.”
    The problem with this is that he would as soon turn us into the "criminals" to justify his actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    The problem with this is that he would as soon turn us into the "criminals" to justify his actions.
    I don't see any evidence to support that statement. The fact that he hasn't done anything to restrict gun ownership is not proof that he will. I think we all agree that criminals and crazies shouldn't have access to guns, the question is, how do we prevent that without restricting the rights of law abiding, non-crazy folks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I think we all agree that criminals and crazies shouldn't have access to guns, the question is, how do we prevent that without restricting the rights of law abiding, non-crazy folks?
    +1
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Flawed premise.
    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    <snip> the question is, how do we prevent that without restricting the rights of law abiding, non-crazy folks?
    Laws are currently in place to prevent known criminals/mental nut cases from acquiring guns via lawful means. If the current slew of laws could not prevent a Aurora what makes you and your lefty brethren believe that additional laws will prevent a Aurora? To prevent another Aurora the government must enact laws, that you correctly point out, will severely restrict the rights of the law abiding.

    The only answer to the Aurora scenario is to remove all restrictions on the lawful exercise of our 2A right. Non-crazy criminals will be deterred and the previously unknown crazy folk will still be able to perpetrate a Aurora. The price of liberty can be very high from time to time.

    Disclaimer: I support restrictions on the private ownership of all modern firearms with a caliber of .61 and larger, excluding black powder firearms.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yzI0AIpUUA

    ....for obvious reasons.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Flawed premise.
    They would just say that anyone who wants an AK47 is crazy...and therefore not eligible to purchase any gun...

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    I didn't say anything about additional laws, good lord, don't you think we have enough already? This Holmes guy was obviously nuts and it's frustrating to me and a large part of the gun owning population that there isn't some mechanism to get the guns away from the Holmes of the world before they go off. When they do go off, the spotlight gets turned on the rest of us non-crazy gun owners and it's getting more difficult to defend our position. Saying that the solution is to allow easier access to gun just means that more crazy/criminal folks will have them and a lot of folks who are on the fence just don't buy that.

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    I think we all agree that criminals and crazies shouldn't have access to guns, the question is, how do we prevent that without restricting the rights of law abiding, non-crazy folks?
    Yes, you did. Of course your question could have been rhetorical in nature and I just didn't get it.

    I agree that the embedded paradox is quite perplexing, prevention requires restrictions.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I just hate the frustration I feel everytime something like this happens. Here at work I have to explain a gun owners position on this because everyone here knows I'm an enthusiast. And what's more, it's too damn hot to go out and shoot after work!

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    It is a cross we seekers of liberty must bear.....isn't it?

    +1 to you Sir.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    <snip> Saying that the solution is to allow easier access to gun just means that more crazy/criminal folks will have them and a lot of folks who are on the fence just don't buy that.
    Well, I believe that a great deal of empirical data exists to discount what the 'folks who are on the fence' think/believe.

    It's our job to correct their thinking one citizen at a time. Nobody ever said our task would be easy. We are making progress though.

    Keep up the good work.....one citizen at a time.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    The religious extremists are the only ones I worry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Proof of how responsible and safe gun owners are, is the fact that anti-gun proponents feel so safe in demonizing us and trying to take our guns away.

    The lefties sure don't feel that way about Muslims.
    Irrelevant, gratuitous, OT, cheap shot.

    No, it is not proof of anything, lefties would find another 'thing' to demonize liberty minded citizens. Guns are easy that is all.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    The thing about this latest incident is that it seems to have motivated more of my liberal friend to consider getting their CCW. Many already own firearms, but they are thinking about taking the class. Fortunately, we have free range close by (5 min.) and an instuctor in town is offering the class. I seem to be the go to guy here when it comes to firearms, but it makes me kind of nervous because the Pres. (of the University I work at) is definately anti-gun. No carry here even though it's a private school. This university pres. is retiring soon and the new guy isn't so anti.The head of the Criminal Justice dept. would love to run all her students through the course, but it's impossible under the current pres.
    Last edited by beebobby; 07-26-2012 at 02:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    On the interview with Brian Williams, Romney was asked straight out if he still felt that assault rifles should be illegal and he flat out didn't answer the question.

    Actually the Pres. didn't speak out against guns, only guns in the hand of criminals or crazy folks.

    “I think a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals,” he said.

    “I believe the majority of gun owners agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons," the president said. "That we should check out a person’s criminal record before they can check out at a gun store. That a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily.”
    He said in the hands of soldiers, not law abiding civillians! That is speaking out against our right to bear arms! We are not soldiers, we are citizens of the United States and we are entitled to own any firearm we wish due to the United States Constitution! Of course an AK does not belong in the hands of a criminal, but how about we enforce the current legislation and not trample on our right to purchase and own firearms. If we would lock these violent criminals up or give them the death penalty when they violently assault human life we wouldn't have to worry about them obtaining a firearm. But we don't, we slap them on their wrist and make them promise to never do it again! HAHAHA. Before this man shot up the theater he was a law abiding citizen, and we can't prosecute people for thought crimes. If Aurora hadn't had an ordinance that prohibited people from carrying firearms maybe someone would have killed this idiot before he killed so many innocent people. We can't blame the gun for an action a PERSON initiates! He could have walked into the theater with explosives strapped to him and killed everyone. The point is if someone who is insane wants to hurt a large group of people he will find a way. I will not allow my rights to be taken away because of the actions of people who are of ill intent. We need to get tough on crime. I would suggest going back to the old way of enforcing justice and allow the citizens to take matters into their own hands. If we can't do that then we need to actually punish these violent people. I don't know about the rest of you, but if someone assaults another Human Being they have made it clear they have no right to be among other Human Beings, and should be kept from doing so.

    Also, the President has spoke out against firearms. Look at his record when he was a State senator! I believe it speaks for itself!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 07-26-2012 at 03:41 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    We are the militia and I agree that criminals who use firearms to commit crimes should have no second chances. It's the frustration that gets to me. We have to allow freedom even though bad folks will use that freedom to hurt others. I really don't know what the solution is, but it will be have to be some kind of compromise in order for it to be acceptable to all.
    Last edited by beebobby; 07-26-2012 at 03:50 PM.

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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I really don't know what the solution is, but it will be have to be some kind of compromise in order for it to be acceptable to all.

    No compromise. We were born with the God-given right to bear arms and are allowed to make our own decisions and be held accountable when those choices are illegal. More laws or "compromise" will not stop the bloodshed- criminals do not obey laws, that's what makes them criminals.
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Airframer View Post
    No compromise. We were born with the God-given right to bear arms and are allowed to make our own decisions and be held accountable when those choices are illegal. More laws or "compromise" will not stop the bloodshed- criminals do not obey laws, that's what makes them criminals.
    The presumption is that there is a God. We are born occupied with Autonomous Man, with the Fundamental Right of self-defense. But we aren't Autonomous Man in application, rather, we are social Man. Basically, our Right to self-defense is a Principle Act that is either sanctioned by the State, or made not-legal by the State.--you will go to jail if the latter is the case.

    God didn't give me crap, my parents copulation is what gave me this wonder life that I bless all of you with, in my presence, nearly every day.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    The idea of folks walking down the street with AKs (legal or otherwise) is not going to fly with the majority of the population. You know, that majority that voted Obama in. As we saw in California, pushing the issue may just come back and bite us in the ass. While I commend your conviction to this issue, we must find a way to retain our freedom while allowing those who may not feel the way we do, feel that they have some control over their environment. As illogical as we know it is, a large part of the population feel that guns are a direct threat to their children and when you bump up against that, you can't fight their fears with logic. I believe that we must compromise or we will lose.

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