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Thread: Obama urges tighter background checks on gun buyers after Aurora massacre

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Obama urges tighter background checks on gun buyers after Aurora massacre

    "A lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities," the president, who has called for reimposing the Assault Weapons Ban, said in a speech to the National Urban League.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...033815400.html
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    "A lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities," the president, who has called for reimposing the Assault Weapons Ban, said in a speech to the National Urban League.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...033815400.html
    I think he wanted to say this: "Most of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of law abiding citizens, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, for self defense and other lawful purposes"

    Also, It thought that AK-47 was not used during Aurora shooting

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    I think he wanted to say this: "Most of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of law abiding citizens, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, for self defense and other lawful purposes"

    Also, It thought that AK-47 was not used during Aurora shooting
    it wasn't, but what type of gun do you expect a kenyan communist to mention. all they know is AK's
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    AK-47's... On the Streets of our Cities

    For example, like this?


    Or like this?



    Yeah, totally.

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    "A lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities," the president, who has called for reimposing the Assault Weapons Ban, said in a speech to the National Urban League.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...033815400.html

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    ...Also, It thought that AK-47 was not used during Aurora shooting
    Allow me to clear this up for you.

    Journalist's Guide to Firearms Identification
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 07-26-2012 at 12:36 PM.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    NICS works pretty well. Maybe it could use a bit of tweaking, but it's pretty effective.

    The biggest problem I've seen is that there isn't a harsh penalty for someone who fails a NICS check trying over and over at different shops. I'd say it'd be good to send jokers like that to prison, because if they're that determined they'll almost inevitably try to talk a non gun person into straw purchasing for them, or seeking out a private sale.
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I don't see much of a problem with the current background check system. A stricter background check would not have prevented the Colorado tragedy, seeing as how Holmes had no record of any kind, criminal or mental.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    NICS works pretty well. Maybe it could use a bit of tweaking, but it's pretty effective.

    The biggest problem I've seen is that there isn't a harsh penalty for someone who fails a NICS check trying over and over at different shops. I'd say it'd be good to send jokers like that to prison, because if they're that determined they'll almost inevitably try to talk a non gun person into straw purchasing for them, or seeking out a private sale.
    Yeah but thats a slippery slope. "We should arrest them, because they'll probably commit a crime"...

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Yeah but thats a slippery slope. "We should arrest them, because they'll probably commit a crime"...

    That's not my point. Trying to buy a gun when you KNOW you're prohibited should be illegal. And as it stands, I'm not sure whether it's a crime or not, but I know that no enforcement actions are taken until the gun is illegally purchased. This is the sort of thing pro and anti gun people should be able to come together on to agree is bad.

    I'm not saying this so much in regards to the colorado shooting, just in terms of the topic at hand.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    ...Trying to buy a gun when you KNOW you're prohibited should be illegal...
    Thanks for clarifying. I agree.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    That's not my point. Trying to buy a gun when you KNOW you're prohibited should be illegal. And as it stands, I'm not sure whether it's a crime or not, but I know that no enforcement actions are taken until the gun is illegally purchased. This is the sort of thing pro and anti gun people should be able to come together on to agree is bad.

    I'm not saying this so much in regards to the colorado shooting, just in terms of the topic at hand.
    It is a crime to lie on form 4473.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yes it is, a felony as I recall. But it doesn't matter if the gun never gets purchased, and the 4473 never gets filled out fully, or gets discarded.

    I am not aware of the intricacies of the law, I am merely speaking on what I've seen happen in person at gun shops and sporting goods stores, and the inaction on repeat unsuccessful attempts at unlawful purchases.

    Whatever the reasoning may be, straightening that out would be a good step to take.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Yes it is, a felony as I recall. But it doesn't matter if the gun never gets purchased, and the 4473 never gets filled out fully, or gets discarded.

    I am not aware of the intricacies of the law, I am merely speaking on what I've seen happen in person at gun shops and sporting goods stores, and the inaction on repeat unsuccessful attempts at unlawful purchases.

    Whatever the reasoning may be, straightening that out would be a good step to take.
    I would like criminals to stay in jail. I can't endorse something I consider unconstitutional to begin with. Would you rather keep Holmes in jail or maybe have stronger laws to monitor him while he is free, and those same laws used on the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I don't see much of a problem with the current background check system..
    I do.

    It exists.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I do.

    It exists.
    +1

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    2A is not just a right but Constitutionally protected right. Therefore, I believe that only high crimes should disqualify someone from owning or possessing a firearm. We have too many non-violent crimes that disqualify people. Michigan concealed carry law is a good example. It has too many unjust disqualifiers

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Here's one person that was indicted for attempting to purchase.

    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...-firearms.html

    Bronson
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I do.

    It exists.
    Just curious, what is wrong with it? I haven't seen any major issues.

    If you have a Michigan CPL, you are exempt. Right now I can walk into a gun store and buy everything as long as I have the credit or cash without a background check. If you don't have a CPL, the system still works well and keeps guns out of the hands of known felons.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Just curious, what is wrong with it? I haven't seen any major issues.

    If you have a Michigan CPL, you are exempt. Right now I can walk into a gun store and buy everything as long as I have the credit or cash without a background check. If you don't have a CPL, the system still works well and keeps guns out of the hands of known felons.
    There is nothing in the 2A that talks of background checks, but does say shall not be infringed.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I suspect it won't be long before some gun owners/carriers who say they support the right to bear arms will be suggesting that restricting the right to bear arms is Ok as long as the restrictions (background checks where the gov. has the power to deny IS a restriction on the right itself simply because the power to deny IS an "infringement") are "reasonable", "appropriate", or.............. "acceptable".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    white house must have felt the heat from his statement, they are already back out to

    The White House signaled Thursday that President Barack Obama would not be seeking new gun control laws in the aftermath of the mass shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. But press secretary Jay Carney said Obama would try to find ways to work around the "stalemate" in Congress to keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/w...224057070.html

    imo, if obama is reelected he will continue to use his judicial appointments to enact his anti-gun agenda. if he has a chance to flip the SCOTUS to a liberal majority i believe heller and mcdonald will be overturned.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 07-26-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I suspect it won't be long before some gun owners/carriers who say they support the right to bear arms will be suggesting that restricting the right to bear arms is Ok as long as the restrictions (background checks where the gov. has the power to deny IS a restriction on the right itself simply because the power to deny IS an "infringement") are "reasonable", "appropriate", or.............. "acceptable".
    I rather like it how it is now, especially now that Bronson posted proof that attempts to buy illegally are criminal too.

    FFL sales MUST be government approved, and private individuals making a sale have the ability to call NICS if they want to. So long as the private sales stay okay (and yes that should include handguns too in Michigan like most of the rest of the US) a national instant check system for FFL sales is okay by me.

    No objections to opposing view points either, just saying I think how we have it now is quite good. Especially if there would be more enforcement on illegal buyers.
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-26-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    NICS works pretty well. Maybe it could use a bit of tweaking, but it's pretty effective.

    The biggest problem I've seen is that there isn't a harsh penalty for someone who fails a NICS check trying over and over at different shops. I'd say it'd be good to send jokers like that to prison, because if they're that determined they'll almost inevitably try to talk a non gun person into straw purchasing for them, or seeking out a private sale.
    I failed an NICS check once; I wouldn't like it if I had to go to prison. Don't forget not every exclusion is regarding something you actually did and/or was convicted of.
    My ex had a ppo entered against me and, according to the paperwork, there was a section regarding firearms which was NOT checked. I thought I could still purchase because it wasn't checked; I was wrong. I fought it but the judge stated, "there is no harm in issuing it" even though I hadn't done anything listed as a reason for one. After the 1st expired, ex tried to get a second one, same judge said "What was I thinking when I issued the 1st one... renewal denied" but it did make me a bit PO'd that I couldn't go deer hunting that year...after arranging for time off, paying for cabin rental, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Just curious, what is wrong with it? I haven't seen any major issues.

    If you have a Michigan CPL, you are exempt. Right now I can walk into a gun store and buy everything as long as I have the credit or cash without a background check. If you don't have a CPL, the system still works well and keeps guns out of the hands of known felons.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is nothing in the 2A that talks of background checks, but does say shall not be infringed.
    Walkingwolf pretty much nailed it.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Good points as usual drtodd, but I would again say that in terms of delusional daydreaming about a more perfect world (since that's what I'm basically doing in expressing my opinions) that the law should be better applied to those who are attempting to buy illegally in spite of knowing they are prohibited, and that harsher enforcement against actual violent felons would be prudent, at least if we're going to talk about improvements that could be made.

    I bet in your case, and in plenty of others, that after some phone calls and inquiries were made that the matter got resolved. There is a large difference between that, and a guy who robbed 3 banks trying to buy a gun knowing he'll never be able to lawfully have one.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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