21 to buy ammo?

I'm 19 and OC and for the past few months I've had zero problems buying ammunition for my handgun and now all of a sudden no one will sell it to me. Apparently there is a federal law stating you have to be 21 to buy handgun ammo, never heard of this...What is the reasoning? I can OC at 18 but I cannot buy ammo? this makes no sense not to mention unbelievably hard for me to acquire ammunition. its getting pretty aggravating :banghead:

You have to be 21 to buy ammunition for a handgun. Do you not have a carbine capable of shooting the same round? My local gun store knows that the common pistol rounds are also common carbine rounds.

It is not illegal to buy ammo for your carbine and then use it in your pistol.

It is stupid, but it is the law.

09jisaac said:

You have to be 21 to buy ammunition for a handgun. Do you not have a carbine capable of shooting the same round? My local gun store knows that the common pistol rounds are also common carbine rounds.

It is not illegal to buy ammo for your carbine and then use it in your pistol.

It is stupid, but it is the law.

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I do not have one capable of that. But what you are saying is they have to sell it to you if it is for use in a carbine?

Will.40 said:

I do not have one capable of that. But what you are saying is they have to sell it to you if it is for use in a carbine?

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They don't have to do a damn thing. They run a business, if they don't want to sell a product to you then they don't have to. I am saying it is not against the law to sale you "carbine/rifle/shotgun" ammo.

Have a .410 judge? They don't need to know that, you can fire it the same out of a .410 long gun.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.net/carbines/40calC.htm# buy the ammo for this. Forgot that you don't own one? No problem, now just use it in your handgun.

NavyLCDR said:

Wow. There's already some serious misinformation here.

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So go ahead and point out the misinformation.

It is not illegal to buy ammo for a firearm you intend to purchase, realize that you probably won't get one in the near future so you now use that ammunition in a firearm you do own.

I did assume though that he was only talking about licensed dealers as it is supremely hard to find someone just selling ammo that does not have a license.

Would the straw purchasing rules apply to ammo?

Just have someone buy it for you, or you can buy it from a friend or relative or anyone who would have the ammunition you need as long as they are not an FFL.

KYGlockster said:

Just have someone buy it for you, or you can buy it from a friend or relative or anyone who would have the ammunition you need as long as they are not an FFL.

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NO!!

Suggesting that someone try to get around the issue by having someone else break the law is both morally and actually wrong. As quoted above, if the person who is actually buying the ammo knows it is being purchased for someone who cannot legally purchase the ammo themselves the purchaser is violating the law.

On the other hand, if someone the OP knew found themselves with a box (or more) of ammo they did not want/need and offered it to the OP, then .... (Yeah, I know it's just a different way of describing basically the same thing.)

stay safe.

skidmark said:

NO!!

Suggesting that someone try to get around the issue by having someone else break the law is both morally and actually wrong. As quoted above, if the person who is actually buying the ammo knows it is being purchased for someone who cannot legally purchase the ammo themselves the purchaser is violating the law.

On the other hand, if someone the OP knew found themselves with a box (or more) of ammo they did not want/need and offered it to the OP, then .... (Yeah, I know it's just a different way of describing basically the same thing.)

stay safe.

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The law says that an FFL can't sell to anyone under the age of 21, and that someone under the age of 21 can't lie and say it is for a carbine when it is really for a hangun. It does not say someone over 21 can't purchase for someone under 21.


First, 18 USC 922 (b)(1) makes it illegal for a LICENSED DEALER to sell ammunition INTENDED for use in a handgun to anyone under the age of 21. The prohibition applies only to LICENSED DEALERS and not to sales by unlicensed ammunition dealers or private parties. No FFL is required to be a dealer in ammunition. The prohibition applies to the INTENDED USE of the ammunition, not the caliber.

Second, 18 USC (a)(6) makes it illegal for a person to lie to a licensed dealer about any fact relative to the purchase/transfer of a gun or ammunition. So, if you intend to use the ammo in a handgun, and you are buying the ammo from a licensed dealer, and you lie to the dealer and tell them it is for a rifle/shotgun/carbine, and you are under 21 years old, you have just committed a Federal felony!

Third, 18 USC 922 (x) sets the age limit of the recipient for selling/gifting handgun ammunition by all persons at 18 years of age.

You walk into the Gun store, buy several boxes of ammunition and then in turn sale it to the person under 21 who is not prohibited from purchasing it from you. You have not lied about what the ammunition is intended for, nor have you broken any laws.

NavyLCDR said:

Here is a question that should be easy for you to answer, then, skidmark, but I bet you won't be able to come up with the answer. My 19 year old son gives me money to buy handgun ammo with. I walk into the gun store, with their FFL displayed on their wall, and put 2 boxes of .45 ACP on the counter. The transaction goes like this, "Is this for a handgun or rifle?" "Handgun." "Are you over 21?" "Yep, here's my driver's license." "Thank you!" I walk out the door and hand my 19 year old son the ammo and his change. What law, with citation, was broken, assuming there is no state law prohibiting providing ammo to my son?

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if you buy your own son ammo thats fine, and not against the law to my knowledge. if I'm wrong about gifting or buying your own son ammo let me know please. because i do not want to mis inform others and possibly cause them to break a law.

Not intended for the person i quoted

We DO NOT advocate breaking the law here on OCDO which is basically all this thread has been about, I'm in awe of the blatant intent in telling the 19 year old to lie about what its for and to blatantly break the law. thats not only as its been pointed out before actually against the law, but just morally wrong in my opinion. Please stop telling people to go around the laws and break them blatantly. i know you all are going to just smash on me now and thats whatever, the point is if he is under 21 it is illegal for him to knowingly buy them for his handgun thus breaking the law lieing to them about what its for.

For a logical Lawful answer to your question sir, Please do not break the laws in any way shape or form. if your parents are ok with you owning and carrying a sidearm they should be just as ok with purchasing you your practice and personal defense rounds. this to my knowledgege is not against the law in any way and i advocate you use this route, to stay out of trouble and to stay LAW ABIDING.

NavyLCDR said:

Mr. LoneEchoWolf, you do understand that I NEVER suggested that a person lie to a dealer and tell them the ammo was for a carbine, when it was for a handgun, right? You do understand that I quoted the statute that would be violated if they did, right? Read my post #6, in it's entirety, when I stated, "In summary, to the OP: either buy your handgun ammunition from an unlicensed ammunition dealer or private party, or have someone buy it for you. [UNDERLINE][BOLD]But DO NOT lie, or cause the purchaser of the ammunition to lie to a licensed dealer about the intended use of the ammunition.[/U][/B}"

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Wow i just quoted you to answer your question first, i didnt intend for it to mean you specificly by the quote and i appoligize for that i should have broke it into two diffrent posts. i appoligize sir. i ment it for everyone that was telling him that and sorry i grouped you in by mistake because of the quote. not my intention what so ever. Edited it to hopefully add clarity, again sorry about that

i can remember when i was 20. i had been married for 2 years, had a son. and had served in the army. but i had to get my father to buy .22 ammo so that i could go squirrel hunting. it wasn't long after that they change the designation of .22. but at the time i thought it was the dumbest law there was. ya know what, it still is.
as far as a straw purchase goes. that only applies to making a profit and if the person can not possess the ammo. if you notice there is no age on possession of ammo, and also if the purchaser is not making a profit you are good to go

Ya know what I find amusing in all this? Perhaps it's just that in my past I've had exceptionally good luck in the matter of purchases, but, I can recall back to when I was 18, the very same day I had bought that AK on my Birthday. Walked into a pawn shop in Morehead, and bought two boxes of .45 Long colt for my mother's pistol. Not once was I asked for I.D., nor of the intent, or reason, or use/purpose of the ammunition. Although that was almost six years ago. From the time I was 18, to, well even today; I'm never asked for I.D., nor of the purpose, use, or other questions relating to my purchasing of handgun calibre ammunition. I've even bought from commercial stores like Wal-Mart, and the local BP station, with no problems. The only only time I can say I recall being I.D.'d, and asked for who and why I'm buying anything, is usually when I buy supplies for my homebrewing, or medicines. xD

I'm sure according to the law, I've broken it in some form or another, and should probably be on death row for the number of times broken, or some silly stuff. I know the website rules is for the avocation of law-abiding stuff, but considering that thousands of people in each of our own respected counties, both civilian, and government, breaks far worse laws every day, blatently and secretly, I honestly doubt anyone's going to throw a b*@ch fit over buying ammo for someone else. Heck guys, our state and federal government does it on a daily basis, and I don't really hear many people arguing over it like these out-of-staters, xD

Next time one of you all goes a tenth of a mile over the speed limit on a dark, isolated highway, or makes a right turn, in a right turn lane, on a green light, without signaling your turn... I want ya to curse, and chastize yourself severely, and go turn yourself in to the local police for breaking some obscure law that no one takes seriously, not even the people who created it in the first place.

/End random randomness about something I forgot and just rambling on about nothing in particular~

*Drake gives everyone a basket of muffins to cover things up~

I love this forum. I really do.

NavyLCDR said:

I am afraid you are mistaken. I even posted the straw purchase statute, 18 USC 922 (a)(6) earlier. Here it is again: Notice the word profit appears no where in the statute. Also notice that the legality of the final recipient to possess the ammunition or firearm no where appears as a factor in the statute. I can buy a gun on behalf of a perfectly legal person to possess that gun, using their money, and still violate the law because they are not getting the background check required for the purchase from the dealer, the background check would be on me. Finally, some states have laws regarding handgun ammunition possession and age limits. Absent a state law, Federal law in 18 USC 922 (x) sets the age limit for possession of handgun ammunition at 18 except under certain very limited circumstances.

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the term of profit came from the BATF, they use it to distinguish from a "gifting".

there was no mention of state or local laws. lets deal with the federal. since there is no form to buy ammo(at least i have never had to fill out any), there is no lying, or giving of false statements.

customer " i would like to buy five boxes of 9 mm. (could be any, this is hypothetical)
clerk " OK here you go, that'll be 96.30$
customer takes them home
neighbor, or family 19 year old says 'hey i will give you 18$ for a box of those 9mm you have"
customer "sure"

can you tell me what law has been broken?

DrakeZ07 said:

Ya know what I find amusing in all this? Perhaps it's just that in my past I've had exceptionally good luck in the matter of purchases, but, I can recall back to when I was 18, the very same day I had bought that AK on my Birthday. Walked into a pawn shop in Morehead, and bought two boxes of .45 Long colt for my mother's pistol. Not once was I asked for I.D., nor of the intent, or reason, or use/purpose of the ammunition. Although that was almost six years ago. From the time I was 18, to, well even today; I'm never asked for I.D., nor of the purpose, use, or other questions relating to my purchasing of handgun calibre ammunition. I've even bought from commercial stores like Wal-Mart, and the local BP station, with no problems. The only only time I can say I recall being I.D.'d, and asked for who and why I'm buying anything, is usually when I buy supplies for my homebrewing, or medicines. xD

I'm sure according to the law, I've broken it in some form or another, and should probably be on death row for the number of times broken, or some silly stuff. I know the website rules is for the avocation of law-abiding stuff, but considering that thousands of people in each of our own respected counties, both civilian, and government, breaks far worse laws every day, blatently and secretly, I honestly doubt anyone's going to throw a b*@ch fit over buying ammo for someone else. Heck guys, our state and federal government does it on a daily basis, and I don't really hear many people arguing over it like these out-of-staters, xD

Next time one of you all goes a tenth of a mile over the speed limit on a dark, isolated highway, or makes a right turn, in a right turn lane, on a green light, without signaling your turn... I want ya to curse, and chastize yourself severely, and go turn yourself in to the local police for breaking some obscure law that no one takes seriously, not even the people who created it in the first place.

/End random randomness about something I forgot and just rambling on about nothing in particular~

*Drake gives everyone a basket of muffins to cover things up~

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The whole other people break the law so it shouldn't be that big of a deal if i do is not going to fly with me sorry. I understand you have not been ID once since starting to buy, awesome for you. but that doesn't change the fact that its still the law, and the great folks that are not id you could all be fired for not following the laws and company polices. but the matter is that on this Forum we only advocate for the Law abiding, which you all were telling that kid to break the law no matter what. It doesn't matter how many thousands break the law, you should be bigger than that, if that same thousand jumped off a bridge I'm sure the same thought process would kick in, well everyone else is doing it, so its not a big deal if i do it. Come on guys this is stones throw away from actually getting this kid in trouble for what, because you all thought it would be ok to break a law thousands of others supposedly do, for that matter thousands of people murder people every year, with your line of thinking, the gov and civilians kill people all the time, so maybe people should stop throwing as you said a "fit" about it because it happens all the time in secret and public, so it must be ok to advocate murder to others too? how very dumb, I'm offended that this is still able to continue, clearly blatantly ok with telling a young new to OC member its ok to break laws because others do. what a crock of bull. Please advocate Abiding by the laws do not advocate breaking them. its not a hard concept to grasp really. as for the speeding in the middle of the night down a long stretch of road, I don't do that, you know why? because i could kill another driver on accident, or hit a deer on one of our many dark stretches of road and kill myself, oh and one of the biggest things, its against the law! as you said "breaking some obscure law that no one takes seriously" like the hundreds of repeat DUI offenders that don't take it serious until they kill someone because of it, then don't take it serious at all still. or the people that don't take no left turn on red signs not seriously until they turn around and smack some kid with there car and injure them. its all fun and games until someone gets hurt. in this case the 19 year old kid could by what you all have been saying walk in lie to the FFL, get caught for lieing and be arrested, have to spend time and money to fight something that he blatantly broke in court, no to mention having the embarrassment from his family and friends. all because you all thought it was a law to not take seriously. if everyone could pick and choose what laws to follow and take seriously we would have one heck of a even more messed up world then we already have. my point is no matter what the situation it is not acceptable to me for anyone to be advocating on this site to break any law what so ever. hell its even in the rules, if you cant follow a basic set of guidelines to make everyone time more enjoyable how can anyone expect you to follow the real laws. PLEASE STOP ADVOCATEING BREAKING THE LAW!

for that matter where the heck are the mods, i shouldnt be the one stepping in to say your advocateing breaking the laws is wrong. but it is and i dont appreciate it, if someone was telling my kid oh your ok its against the law but other people do it so just go for it, id be one angry dad.

Manzanita said:

I love this forum. I really do.

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I know right?~ Everyone here are really awesome and you should meet them in person~ Well, atleast the Central-KY peeps, and a couple of us from Bath and Rowan, and Bourbon I think, may have been Harrison co... Oh! and, the forum loves you too hun~ <3
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@LoneEchoWolf;

PUNCUATION! Dear gods man, put some spacing in there, and use parahraphs, and semi-paragraphs. Your post literally made my eyes hurt reading it. Also, I think you took what I was saying out of context, I'm not really sure, I was under the influence of some very powerful pain killers last night when I came home from the E.R., so even reading back on what I said I can't figure out what I meant, LOL.

It isn't illegal to buy ammo for a carbine and then use it in a handgun. The intent is the thing. I have shot round after round through a handgun that I bought for a carbine. Is that illegal? Nope. I intended to use it in a carbine, the range time with the carbine just didn't last as long as I thought it would. Are you saying I should have taken it back because I no longer had the gun?

That don't seem right. I didn't lie to anyone to get the ammo, I didn't break any laws to get the ammo, so now I can't shoot it because it is a handgun that shoots that caliber?

I shot .410 ammo that I had for years (I didn't buy it) through my cousins judge. Thats not illegal.
I shot .22 LR ammo that was purchased for a Henry through a Sig mosquito. Thats not illegal.
And I can shoot all my .223 ammo through an AR-pistol if I so choose.

DrakeZ07 said:

I know right?~ Everyone here are really awesome and you should meet them in person~ Well, atleast the Central-KY peeps, and a couple of us from Bath and Rowan, and Bourbon I think, may have been Harrison co... Oh! and, the forum loves you too hun~ <3
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@LoneEchoWolf;

PUNCUATION! Dear gods man, put some spacing in there, and use , and semi-paragraphs. Your post literally made my eyes hurt reading it. Also, I think you took what I was saying out of context, I'm not really sure, I was under the influence of some very powerful pain killers last night when I came home from the E.R., so even reading back on what I said I can't figure out what I meant, LOL.

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HA gunna start bashing my punctuation, sad. but thats alright, tech paragraphs (which is spelled correctly) unlike parahraphs which I'm not sure what that is have certain things yours are lacking, as in starting correctly with a TAB button push, its pretty easy it says TAB and is on all keyboards, i didn't realize i was in high school writing for my English teacher again, you got my point and thats all that matters. As you can see everyone can point out a puncuation mistake. Your eyes hurting is none of my concern just as "Officer safety" isn't, not my job to worry about your eyes, just don't read it. Sorry to hear that you are hurting and needed medication and i hope that you start to feel better.

Was not trying to be rude or whatnot but maybe you all should be less concerned with my punctuation and more concerned with people of your state going about telling people to break the laws, that looks real bad on every person in your state that has condoned such actions, and looks real bad for all OC on this site and nation wide, to puts us all in the group of Open carriers that go around the laws to get there way, and i for one am not in that group. Stop making everyone look bad, Thanks!

09jisaac said:

It isn't illegal to buy ammo for a carbine and then use it in a handgun. The intent is the thing. I have shot round after round through a handgun that I bought for a carbine. Is that illegal? Nope. I intended to use it in a carbine, the range time with the carbine just didn't last as long as I thought it would. Are you saying I should have taken it back because I no longer had the gun?

That don't seem right. I didn't lie to anyone to get the ammo, I didn't break any laws to get the ammo, so now I can't shoot it because it is a handgun that shoots that caliber?

I shot .410 ammo that I had for years (I didn't buy it) through my cousins judge. Thats not illegal.
I shot .22 LR ammo that was purchased for a Henry through a Sig mosquito. Thats not illegal.
And I can shoot all my .223 ammo through an AR-pistol if I so choose.

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no none of that is illegal, What IS illegal is telling the 19 year old who is not over the age to buy handgun ammo, to just tell the FFL its for a carbine he doesn't own and turn around and use it in a handgun he does own. In order to get around the Law of haveing to be 21 to buy handgun ammo. thats illegal, and immoral