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Thread: Here's How The Government Spends Our Tax Dollars... Colt CQBP

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Here's How The Government Spends Our Tax Dollars... Colt CQBP

    Our government, in their infinite wisdom (and with help from the USMC), apparently thinks that - in quantities of "up to" 12,000 - $1,875 is a reasonable price to pay for a "new" 1911-style, semi-auto .45acp pistol to replace the Marine's aging M45s. It seems that certain "flag words" - like Tactical and CQB - trigger an emotional response in many people. A response similar to that felt by the anti-2A crowd, when they hear the phrase "assault rifle", only with the exact opposite end-action. It's one that makes them "must have it" and want to spend more money to acquire one... or, in this case, 12,000. (I just this minute had to remind myself that government purchasing agents think that toilet seats are worth $800, and screws are a good deal at $50 each.)
    As reported by Military.com, “The July 19 [2012] contract, which has a total value of $22.5 million, brings an end to the Corps’ exhaustive search for the top .45 caliber, 1911-style pistol to replace the fleet of worn-out Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, M45 pistols. The new Close Quarter Battle Pistols will be very similar to the M45s they are replacing this fall. They will have a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions.”
    In quantities of 12,000 (price includes X number of various replacement parts) the USMC should be getting a serious price break.
    According to YahooFinance:
    The initial Delivery Order on the contract is for 4036 CQBP, plus spares. Deliveries will begin later this year.
    Initial reports, which leave much to the imagination regarding specific details about the CQBP, indicate that the contract is for 5 years, and shipments of "up to" 4,000 CQBPs, in three stages.

    "Very similar" to the existing M45... that does make sense in at least two ways:
    1. Our Marines are already extremely familiar - and quite comfortable - with the 1911-style pistol, thereby requiring virtually no "learning curve" for the CQBP version.
    2. Colt's "investment castings" for many of the parts (frames, slides, barrels, triggers, etc) will make the weapon less expensive for them to produce, thereby increasing their already exorbitant profit margin.
    (The whole idea of a "CQB pistol" seems like a restatement of the obvious to me. The handgun is not exactly the first choice of snipers or designated marksmen... or even infantry grunts. In military applications, the handgun is (and always has been), by design, a CQB weapon - it's the last choice before the knife!)

    The reported criteria for the winning CQBP was: "5-shot groups not to exceed 4"x4" at 25 yards, from an unsupported position, reliability and magazine life." Not terribly demanding... most decent pistol shooters can do groups under 3" at 25 yards with the old 1911!

    1911-style pistols from Springfield Armory and S&W were also in the competition, but (for unspecified reasons) they failed to prevail. My question is, am I the only person that thinks that Colt is "ripping off" the USMC? Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-30-2012 at 03:58 PM. Reason: removed "d" from "an"
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I think it is a high price, and I am a 1911 fan. But considering the new troops are not old timers like me, I would have like to see a Double Action Only gun approved with possibly a higher magazine capacity.

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    You forgot the cost of all these for the gov't contractors (a little grease for the high price)

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    You think that is bad you should see how much each of the bullets cost the US Goverment.

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    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    The reason they will never adopt the Glock is the absence of a manual safety. Yes, it is silly but much of this is based on mystique more than practicality.

    America's continued love affair with the assumption that technology can defeat or obviate training.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    The reason they will never adopt the Glock is the absence of a manual safety. Yes, it is silly but much of this is based on mystique more than practicality.

    America's continued love affair with the assumption that technology can defeat or obviate training.
    I think that, in combat, the manual safety is for the protection of our military members (most of whom do not have PhD's in "Rocket Science"). It's an attempt to make the pistol "foolproof", and to protect some of us from our own stupidity (but we keep creating better, more inventive fools). The "downside" to any manual safety, is that it's one more thing the defender has to diddle with prior to engaging the enemy (who is probably already in the FIRE position).

    Manual safeties are not terribly complex, and they don't generally require an advanced engineering degree, or some kind of Mongolian D***-Dance ritual in order to make the weapon ready. But, that split second of lost time will prove to be crucial - perhaps fatal - for some folks. IMHO, if one finds oneself in "Condition Orange" (a High Condition is usually declared when general intelligence or global conditions [or your Spidey-sense] indicate a high potential for terrorist attack - or a potential firefight) the only way to carry a 1911-style pistol is in what John D. "Jeff" Cooper called "Condition Zero": A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off. In the USA today, the possibility of being caught up in a life-threatening situation is no longer so remote as to be reasonably labeled paranoid for carrying.

    Daily, we live in an unofficial Alert Condition Yellow/Orange. When I leave the house, my Glocks are always in Condition Zero (since technically there is no Condition One for a Glock), and (IMHO) anything less ready than Condition One is a death wish. Pax...
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    You should be shooting folks with your rifle, not a handgun ... you let them get to close!

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Marines' New Colt M-45 CQBP Shows Critical Damage

    Colt sent the Marines 15 modified Rail Gun 1911s for evaluation early this year. Test pistols numbers 11, 12, 14 and 15 all showed "safety-critical" cracks and one failed completely. Samples 1-10 were not tested. The guns fired just 12,000 rounds (it is not clear whether they fired 12,000 rounds each or all together—either way this looks very bad). Despite these failures, the Marines selected Colt to manufacture future M-45s for service use.
    http://www.guns.com/marines-colt-rai...ugs-10420.html
    Last edited by oldbanger; 08-15-2012 at 04:59 PM.

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