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Thread: Castle Rock M&G question for OC

  1. #1
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    Castle Rock M&G question for OC

    It was brought to my attention by my dad about OC in Castle Rock. City Ordinance 9-04.165 says that there is a OC BAN......can anyone confirm this?

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemaster69 View Post
    It was brought to my attention by my dad about OC in Castle Rock. City Ordinance 9-04.165 says that there is a OC BAN......can anyone confirm this?
    *facedesk*

    Preemption... preemption... besides, we'll be on private property....

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Do you mean the Franktown M&G this Sat? The Castle Rock M&G is on hold for a later date due to scheduling conflicts.

    Rob is correct on pre-emption.

    Keens

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    Yeah....I meant Franktown

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemaster69 View Post
    Yeah....I meant Franktown
    We'll be fine.. =)
    Would I let you OC anywhere that'd get you in trouble? :P

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    I'm just one of those that if I hear about something that I don't expect.....I want confirmation on whether it is true or not. ROFL....call it my Army training

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemaster69 View Post
    I'm just one of those that if I hear about something that I don't expect.....I want confirmation on whether it is true or not. ROFL....call it my Army training
    You could always hire a lawyer...

  8. #8
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemaster69 View Post
    I'm just one of those that if I hear about something that I don't expect.....I want confirmation on whether it is true or not. ROFL....call it my Army training
    PREEMPTION!!!

    The whole subject of various municipal codes is IRRELEVANT!!!!!
    How many times must it be said..... the LAW is PREEMPTION!
    Nothing else matters, when the question has already been answered repeatedly.

    Once more.... with feelings!!!! Hopefully it won't need to be posted in every single thread!!!

    CRS 29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.
    A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

    And:

    29-11.7-101. Legislative declaration.
    (1) The general assembly hereby finds that:
    ...
    (b) Section 13 of article II of the state constitution protects the fundamental right of a person to keep and bear arms and implements section 3 of article II of the state constitution;
    ...
    (d) There exists a widespread inconsistency among jurisdictions within the state with regard to firearms regulations;

    (e) This inconsistency among local government laws regulating lawful firearm possession and ownership has extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public by subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties in some jurisdictions for conduct wholly lawful in other jurisdictions;

    (f) Inconsistency among local governments of laws regulating the possession and ownership of firearms results in persons being treated differently under the law solely on the basis of where they reside, and a person's residence in a particular county or city or city and county is not a rational classification when it is the basis for denial of equal treatment under the law;
    ...
    (2) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that:

    (a) The regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern;

    (b) It is necessary to provide statewide laws concerning the possession and ownership of a firearm to ensure that law-abiding persons are not unfairly placed in the position of unknowingly committing crimes involving firearms.

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

    Now, practice your new mantra. Repeat without ceasing....
    PREEMPTION!!!!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    M, I feel EXACTLY like you do...but we must be tolerant of the newbies who come here seeking advice. If we weren't rehashing old topics over and over ad nasuem then we'd have a pretty quiet forum. I know you know this...but this happens on every single forum there is, regardless of topic. My motorcycle forums, for example, are constantly telling new people to use the search function because there are already hundreds of threads covering the exactt question just asked.

    We're going to have another newbie tomorrow asking if it's okay to OC in such-and-such a town or if a particular sign is valid...and we'll answer him respectfully...as well as the next one after than, and the next, and the next, and the....
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  10. #10
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    M, I feel EXACTLY like you do...but we must be tolerant of the newbies who come here seeking advice.
    Howdy PPMM!
    That ain't preciseley the point.
    When we answer the same question, for the same people, repeatedly, only to see continued posting of municipal codes, it gets pretty pointless to give the correct answer at all, if it only goes ignored.

    There are people on the forum who are asking questions. I don't have a problem with that. When the question is answered, but ignored, and answered again, and ignored, it starts to feel more like an attention mechanism than an actual request for information.

    I am not pointing my finger at any specific individual. I've seen the same question repeatedly from specific individuals who just can't seem to accept the right answer.

    When that happens, yeah, I get frustrated. I would like to do more positive work than rehash the same material over and over for the same questioner.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member Wolfstanus's Avatar
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    Copied and pasted into cellphone notes. Thanks M


    Now to eat some NICE cookies. Nom Nom Nom Nom.

  12. #12
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfstanus View Post
    Now to eat some NICE cookies. Nom Nom Nom Nom.
    Howdy Amigo!
    Hey now... it's bad enough I have birthday cake to ruin my girlish figure.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member Wolfstanus's Avatar
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    That's why they invented slim fast. So you can eat a stake dinner and not even worry about gaining weight.

    That's how it works right?

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    Regular Member nkunnen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    PREEMPTION!!!

    The whole subject of various municipal codes is IRRELEVANT!!!!!
    How many times must it be said..... the LAW is PREEMPTION!
    Nothing else matters, when the question has already been answered repeatedly.

    Once more.... with feelings!!!! Hopefully it won't need to be posted in every single thread!!!

    CRS 29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.
    A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

    And:

    29-11.7-101. Legislative declaration.
    (1) The general assembly hereby finds that:
    ...
    (b) Section 13 of article II of the state constitution protects the fundamental right of a person to keep and bear arms and implements section 3 of article II of the state constitution;
    ...
    (d) There exists a widespread inconsistency among jurisdictions within the state with regard to firearms regulations;

    (e) This inconsistency among local government laws regulating lawful firearm possession and ownership has extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public by subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties in some jurisdictions for conduct wholly lawful in other jurisdictions;

    (f) Inconsistency among local governments of laws regulating the possession and ownership of firearms results in persons being treated differently under the law solely on the basis of where they reside, and a person's residence in a particular county or city or city and county is not a rational classification when it is the basis for denial of equal treatment under the law;
    ...
    (2) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that:

    (a) The regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern;

    (b) It is necessary to provide statewide laws concerning the possession and ownership of a firearm to ensure that law-abiding persons are not unfairly placed in the position of unknowingly committing crimes involving firearms.

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

    Now, practice your new mantra. Repeat without ceasing....
    PREEMPTION!!!!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

    Can you explain it one more time for me? LOL

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkunnen View Post
    Can you explain it one more time for me? LOL
    Howdy Amigo!
    No, I don't believe so! LOL!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  16. #16
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    The Colorado Revised Statutes is the scheme of laws that, when violated by a citizen, result in arrest and a trip to jail.
    Here we are talking about a violation of a citizen's right by sworn officers who arrested him for no such violation of Colorado Revised Statutes.
    Meanwhile, the arresting officers violated Colorado Revised Statutes:
    CRS 29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.
    A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

    Yes, they can be sued... if the citizen who had his rights violated has pockets deep enough to file suit.
    Why is it not also a criminal liability issue as well?
    If cops can put an innocent citizen in jail who has not violated Colorado Revised Statutes,
    Why is it citizens cannot cause the cops who did violate Colorado Revised Statutes to walk free without jail time?

    Something is wrong here, and I believe may need addressed with a ballot issue to fix it.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 07-31-2012 at 08:53 AM.

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    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    Lets have the preemption documentation by M-T made into a sticky so we can all find and refer to it often. It needs to be posted in many obvious places! It is important!
    Last edited by wmodavis; 07-31-2012 at 10:00 AM.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Why is it citizens cannot cause the cops who did violate Colorado Revised Statutes to walk free without jail time?
    Because if you read the preemption law (for example), nowhere does it state "A violation will be a class III <whatever>, punishable by a maximum jail sentence of <whatever>".

    This, in my opinion, is one problem with current legislation aimed at governments -- legislation aimed at you and me carries fines and/or jail time. Legislation aimed at governments, well, they seem to always seem to forget the punishment part...

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    I've never had anyone say anything to me other than "Is that a 1911"?

    No worries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy PPMM!
    That ain't preciseley the point.
    When we answer the same question, for the same people, repeatedly, only to see continued posting of municipal codes, it gets pretty pointless to give the correct answer at all, if it only goes ignored.

    There are people on the forum who are asking questions. I don't have a problem with that. When the question is answered, but ignored, and answered again, and ignored, it starts to feel more like an attention mechanism than an actual request for information.

    I am not pointing my finger at any specific individual. I've seen the same question repeatedly from specific individuals who just can't seem to accept the right answer.

    When that happens, yeah, I get frustrated. I would like to do more positive work than rehash the same material over and over for the same questioner.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    I was searching for info about Castle Rock, and came across this thread.

    I seriously don't understand why this is a black and white issue. Why?
    Denver won its lawsuit. Preemption failed.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrid View Post
    I was searching for info about Castle Rock, and came across this thread.

    I seriously don't understand why this is a black and white issue. Why?
    Denver won its lawsuit. Preemption failed.
    What is that about? Did I miss something? Is the race card being played?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Wolfstanus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrid View Post
    I was searching for info about Castle Rock, and came across this thread.

    I seriously don't understand why this is a black and white issue.Why?
    Denver won its lawsuit. Preemption failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What is that about? Did I miss something? Is the race card being played?
    Seriously?

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    Cool

    Oh Crap, Castle Rock is no Open Carry, Holy Crap. I better let my neighbor know, he is Douglas County Sherriff and laughs every time I am out walking and I have my sidearm neatly holstered to my hip. I better let my other neighbor who is Denver PD and lets me know that he thinks it is cool that I open carry and the Elizabeth Chief who lives up around the corner and sees me all the time plainly OC'ing. I probably should stay in the house and lock the door. Oh, to think the Castle Rock is not OC then some people here have some splaining to do, and I should have been arrested a few hundred times. Sorry, tongue in cheek, but Douglas County and Castle Rock specifically is very OC friendly. Sorry to burst anyones bubble.

    Carry On Garth!

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    *facedesk*

    Preemption... preemption... besides, we'll be on private property....

    --Rob

    What the he(ck) fun is that?!?!?!?

    Organize a little walk past the police department before or after the festivities and dare them to do something!!

  25. #25
    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Castle Rock M&G question for OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfstanus View Post
    Seriously?
    stupid is as stupid does.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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