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Thread: Woodinville homeowner shoots a burglar

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    Woodinville homeowner shoots a burglar

    Homeowners came home to find a couple of burglars rummaging through their home. The husband pulled a gun on the man and called 911. While the homeowner was on the call, the burglar rushed toward him. The homeowner shot two times, hitting the man both times. The burglar, however, proceeded to run (past the homeowner?), got into a getaway car and was taken away by his woman driver. He later had to get into a hospital to treat the wound.

    http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/crime-news-video/lWw/

    I am very much interested what kind of woulds were they, and what weapon the homeowner had, that the burglar was able to keep running. Does anyone have any more information?

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    I think the reaction to a rush towards anyone armed would be shots to the chest. It's the most obvious and easiest place to hit. Two hits and still running away, I'm thinking of something small like a 22 or 380. I'm no ballistics expert by any means.

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    Another +1 for the good guys. We are making progress on stopping crimes. Too bad the rewards out weight the risk for criminals right now.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    9MM, sounds like.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This is a proactive action into lowering burglaries do doubt, any recommendations, yes use a larger caliber.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    This is a proactive action into lowering burglaries do doubt, any recommendations, yes use a larger caliber.
    Or switch to hollow points for SD carry.
    “Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Obviously not a .45 - probably some wimpy round like a 9mm.


    Nevertheless, good for the homeowner!
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    Obviously not a .45 - probably some wimpy round like a 9mm.


    Nevertheless, good for the homeowner!
    Another one that thinks the .45 is the "Magic Bullet".

    Seems I recall a shooting at a Schucks Store at 72nd and Portland ave in Tacoma where someone holding up the Store was shot 7 times by a customer carrying a 1911. All seven rounds were hits and yet the robber was still able to return fire and even lived.

    Shot placement is EVERYTHING, not caliber.

    As for this incident, reports in the Everett Herald referred to the weapon as "small caliber". Regardless, it did end the attack and best of all, the owner was carrying it.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Shot placement is mostly everything. Luck plays a large part too. Sometimes people just keep going. I read a story once about a .25 that killed a guy with one shot. Then I met an Iraqi bodyguard who had a run in with a PKC. He got stitched right across the chest. He was still up and walking around and I counted 5-6 scars.
    Then there is the soldier who took an RPG to the stomach and lived. And yes, it did detonate.
    5.56 will drop a person and then fail to stop a wild dog.

    There is no magic bullet. There is no perfect caliber. Shot placement is key to incapacitation but sometimes luck gets in the way.

    Good for the homeowner on defending his family.
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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Shot placement is mostly everything. Luck plays a large part too. Sometimes people just keep going. I read a story once about a .25 that killed a guy with one shot. Then I met an Iraqi bodyguard who had a run in with a PKC. He got stitched right across the chest. He was still up and walking around and I counted 5-6 scars.
    Then there is the soldier who took an RPG to the stomach and lived. And yes, it did detonate.
    5.56 will drop a person and then fail to stop a wild dog.

    There is no magic bullet. There is no perfect caliber. Shot placement is key to incapacitation but sometimes luck gets in the way.

    Good for the homeowner on defending his family.
    Exactly!

    Often enough when people aim, they usually aim for the stomach area, just due to the fact it is a much larger area to hit. Does not matter to much on the caliber as it does on shot placement.

    Two to the chest one to the head. It is not that simple but can be acheived with practice and training. Staying calm is often hard to do and shooting at stationary targets does not give us enough real training that is needed for various situations.

    http://www.cascadiatactical.com/programsandclasses.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    I think the reaction to a rush towards anyone armed would be shots to the chest. It's the most obvious and easiest place to hit. Two hits and still running away, I'm thinking of something small like a 22 or 380. I'm no ballistics expert by any means.
    Actually, depending on adrenalin or drug levels the caliber could have been anything. I've read accounts of people getting catastrophic damage to liver, heart and lungs and they kept on fighting until they were either given a head shot or until they bled out.

    Shot placement is very important but as has been mentioned, sometimes Lady Luck just give you the finger.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 07-31-2012 at 02:22 PM.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osjak View Post
    I am very much interested what kind of woulds were they, and what weapon the homeowner had, that the burglar was able to keep running. Does anyone have any more information?
    Adrenalin can be a pretty amazing thing.
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    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  13. #13
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Caliber does not matter, I knew a soldier that was in the wrong place doing the wrong things who got shot by a .22, and died. The shot was to the body, and not the head.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    Adrenalin can be a pretty amazing thing.
    This. Last I heard the BG was in critical condition at the hospital. So the slugs must have done SOME kind of serious damage. And yet, there's all kinds of stories of people taking some pretty large objects through the head and living to tell the tale.

    Adrenaline, luck, caliber, physical & mental condition of the shootee. All are factors. Short of taking the head completely off, it's actually pretty hard to kill/neutralize a person "instantly." And even then the head goes on "living" for several seconds.

    The key isn't shooting till you think he's dead, shoot till he thinks he's dead. Some may need more convincing than others.
    Last edited by Metalhead47; 07-31-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    The key isn't shooting till you think he's dead, shoot till he thinks he's dead. Some may need more convincing than others.
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    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Caliber debate is irrelevant. Whatever the homeowner had (likely smaller than 9mm) worked: the homeowner is alive, the BG is in custody.

    Prayers to the homeowner because he'll have the aftermath to deal with.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    The key isn't shooting till you think he's dead, shoot till he thinks he's dead. Some may need more convincing than others.
    "Stop the threat." Nothing more. While what you type might seem humorous to you, if you act in such a fashion it would likely be criminal.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    "Stop the threat." Nothing more. While what you type might seem humorous to you, if you act in such a fashion it would likely be criminal.

    I'm not the one who coined the phrase. I see your stick is firmly planted in the usual place...
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions. The back story is that I want my wife to start CC'ing. She has small hands, and most firearms are just uncomfortable for her. And when you take a small 9mm, it is usually a snappy one to shoot. Naturally, she likes to shoot .380 more because of low recoil. My internet investigation shows that .380 is about half as powerful as 9mm. My consern is that if she is in a situation when a guy attacks her, she only has so much time to stop him. And an equal number/placement of 9mm shots will have higher chance of stopping a guy. I know that the shot placement is very important, and the man with a hole in the head does not care if it was a .45 or .22. But more realistic during stress is shots placed into the torso area. The incident in Woodinville is interesting to me, because it sounded like the homeowner used a smaller caliber, providing a small caliber self-defense case from real life.

    From responses posted, I see that a reasonable strategy for my wife would be to have a .380 gun that she would carry and practice with more often, because she likes it better than a 9mm. And in case of an attack, keep shooting until the guy stops or the gun runs out of ammo, in which case try to outrun a hopefully wounded attacker.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osjak View Post
    Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions. The back story is that I want my wife to start CC'ing. She has small hands, and most firearms are just uncomfortable for her. And when you take a small 9mm, it is usually a snappy one to shoot. Naturally, she likes to shoot .380 more because of low recoil. My internet investigation shows that .380 is about half as powerful as 9mm. My consern is that if she is in a situation when a guy attacks her, she only has so much time to stop him. And an equal number/placement of 9mm shots will have higher chance of stopping a guy. I know that the shot placement is very important, and the man with a hole in the head does not care if it was a .45 or .22. But more realistic during stress is shots placed into the torso area. The incident in Woodinville is interesting to me, because it sounded like the homeowner used a smaller caliber, providing a small caliber self-defense case from real life.

    From responses posted, I see that a reasonable strategy for my wife would be to have a .380 gun that she would carry and practice with more often, because she likes it better than a 9mm. And in case of an attack, keep shooting until the guy stops or the gun runs out of ammo, in which case try to outrun a hopefully wounded attacker.
    My wife is the same, insisted on a .380. So I insisted she carry Buffalo Bore lead flat nose +P ammo. With a .380 I'm more concerned about adequate penetration vs expansion.

    Also, for home defense think about a 20 gauge shotgun. My wife loves her cheapo 20 gauge coach gun, can handle it easily, and 20 gauge buck is still damned effective at in-house ranges.


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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    My wife is the same, insisted on a .380. So I insisted she carry Buffalo Bore lead flat nose +P ammo. With a .380 I'm more concerned about adequate penetration vs expansion.

    Also, for home defense think about a 20 gauge shotgun. My wife loves her cheapo 20 gauge coach gun, can handle it easily, and 20 gauge buck is still damned effective at in-house ranges.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    All the newer .380s modeled after the Ruger have very thin walls in the chamber and barrel. I was wondering if you have used any of the +p ammo and know how well these guns hold up to the extra pressure. As far as I know, they're not rated for it are they? My wife has the Taurus .380

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    All the newer .380s modeled after the Ruger have very thin walls in the chamber and barrel. I was wondering if you have used any of the +p ammo and know how well these guns hold up to the extra pressure. As far as I know, they're not rated for it are they? My wife has the Taurus .380
    My wife has the Bersa, with +p ammo in ANY gun, it is to be used SPARINGLY. After all it's carry ammo, not practice. Yes, she's put about a box & a half thru for function testing, no issues.


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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osjak View Post
    Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions. The back story is that I want my wife to start CC'ing. She has small hands, and most firearms are just uncomfortable for her. And when you take a small 9mm, it is usually a snappy one to shoot. Naturally, she likes to shoot .380 more because of low recoil. My internet investigation shows that .380 is about half as powerful as 9mm. My consern is that if she is in a situation when a guy attacks her, she only has so much time to stop him. And an equal number/placement of 9mm shots will have higher chance of stopping a guy. I know that the shot placement is very important, and the man with a hole in the head does not care if it was a .45 or .22. But more realistic during stress is shots placed into the torso area. The incident in Woodinville is interesting to me, because it sounded like the homeowner used a smaller caliber, providing a small caliber self-defense case from real life.

    From responses posted, I see that a reasonable strategy for my wife would be to have a .380 gun that she would carry and practice with more often, because she likes it better than a 9mm. And in case of an attack, keep shooting until the guy stops or the gun runs out of ammo, in which case try to outrun a hopefully wounded attacker.
    If your wife is more comfortable with a .380 then that is the pistol she should be carrying. Practice and practice some more. While she is home, (pistol unloaded, both barrrel and magazine) have her practice removing pistol from the cc position and aiming down sites and dry firing. I STRESS, MAKE SURE THE PISTOL DOES NOT HAVE ANY AMMO IN MAGAZINE OR IN THE CHAMBER.. Also you might want to keep reminding her to never place her finger on the trigger until she is ready to actually pull the trigger. Once she feels ready to try with ammo, I would take her to a range that will let her fire from the CC position, (range that I goto does not allow that). Either that or take her into the forest where you can legally target practice. Many of things that one can do to practice, but one may never really be prepared to actually engage on someone until it really happens. Simunitions training is as close to real as one can get, if one can afford it. practice, practice and practice.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member cpgrad08's Avatar
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    Good job on the homeowner.

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    Regular Member 07Altima's Avatar
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    There is a reason I carry big

    I like my 45 colt rounds, and 410 triple buck 5 pellet those suckers at close range will put down a full size line backer with two shots, anything 25 ft or closer is going to result in being hit with anywhere from the space of a 50. to being hit by 5, 37. caliber balls in a range of 7 to ten ft. they spread to 1in. at close range 5 ft. its about half an in. or 50. so that 410 is going to leave them hurting also copper plated so not your average ball. the 45 colt I carry is Hornady Critical defense. I dont think two shots from either would result in any guy ever running past me. Although if on PcP that may be another story, or acid. Either way must have been 40 or smaller maybe a 38 seen some people keep going after two or 3 38s Either way glad he got the bad guy some early justice

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