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Thread: Shipping Firearms to Colorado...

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Shipping Firearms to Colorado...

    Here's the set-up. My brother is going to ship me my dad's old 12Ga pump shotgun. This is a skeet shooting style shotgun. Don't remember the brand/model but I do remember it's probably got a 28" barrel and a 2+1 capacity max. It's probably pushing 30+ years old by now.

    I'm struggling to get a clear answer on the procedure by Colorado law. I called an FFL here and one in his state. They told me that if my local FFL was willing to accept shipment from a private party, they could ship it directly without going through an FFL on their end. But what does CO law say regarding shipments from private party? Best case is to have them ship it to my FFL instead of going FFL to FFL. Then we only have to pay one fee.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Here's the set-up. My brother is going to ship me my dad's old 12Ga pump shotgun. This is a skeet shooting style shotgun. Don't remember the brand/model but I do remember it's probably got a 28" barrel and a 2+1 capacity max. It's probably pushing 30+ years old by now.

    I'm struggling to get a clear answer on the procedure by Colorado law. I called an FFL here and one in his state. They told me that if my local FFL was willing to accept shipment from a private party, they could ship it directly without going through an FFL on their end. But what does CO law say regarding shipments from private party? Best case is to have them ship it to my FFL instead of going FFL to FFL. Then we only have to pay one fee.
    Alright i was going through this same issue trying to get my brother my old C9 highpoint, maybe i can shed some light on it, i called the USPS, UPS, talked to several FFL's here and where i was sending it and they all said the same thing. USPS does not ship firearms normally they referred me to UPS, UPS told me that they do infact ship handguns and gave me the prices and insurance prices for them, they said that as long as i tell them its a handgun in the package that its ok, and advised me on the day i dropped it off to not close the box to let the shippers tape it shut once i got there. security I'm assuming. and that it had to be shipped to a licensed FFL. The FFL i talked to said that a private owner may ship said weapon just as if you were shipping it to the company for repairs but it must go to a FFL only. so a private owner cannot ship to a nother private owner unless said receiving owner has a antique or collectors license that it must go to a FFL. The receiving FFL may run a background check and charge you for that as well as there receiving fees as the FFL i sent it to did this but i believe that is there discretion. below i will post the UPS policy on firearm shipment and will also add the link to hopefully help you out, it does have cites on it also.

    Shipping Firearms

    Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

    Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
    UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.


    Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921, will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
    UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
    UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
    Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally.
    UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.



    Follow These Packing Requirements
    Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages tendered to UPS for delivery.
    All firearms are to be shipped in new corrugated packaging which meets the UPS Single Wall Box Strength Guidelines.
    All firearms are to be packaged in accordance with UPS Packaging Guideline Specifications.
    Ammunition must be shipped separately from packages that contain firearms (including handguns).
    Ammunition will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments, and must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials.



    About Documentation and Labeling
    The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.
    The labeling and outer box markings on all firearms shipments should not identify the contents as containing a firearm. Labeling, including the shipper's and consignee's abbreviated names on the shipping label or air shipping document, must be non-descriptive.



    Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
    Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
    When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
    See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.


    http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html

    Hope this helps, it was a huge hoop to jump through to get it shipped but i remember hearing story's from my father about back in the day being able to only ship completely disassembled and firing pin shipped separate stuff. Good luck, i did get mine shipped funny thing is, the shipping handling insurance, fees and background check equaled out to be more than the highpoint itself HA! so i didn't charge my bro for the C9 only the shipping!
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Clarification. I found out USPS does not ship handguns very well. Long guns are not a problem for USPS and most people recommend it. I'm going to find out tonight if my FFL will take shipment from private party. Then it should be a LOT cheaper. Thing that sucks is, this is my families gun. Why do we have to pay someone else to even deal with it. Grrrr....

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Clarification. I found out USPS does not ship handguns very well. Long guns are not a problem for USPS and most people recommend it. I'm going to find out tonight if my FFL will take shipment from private party. Then it should be a LOT cheaper. Thing that sucks is, this is my families gun. Why do we have to pay someone else to even deal with it. Grrrr....
    Hmm thanks for the clarification on USPS, ya that should be mega cheaper route to take than UPS, hopefully your FFL has no problems, the one i sent to i talked to him on the phone and he was just fine with accepting it as long as he runs a background check and blah blah, i completely agree with you, its your family's weapon, paid for long ago and has by the sounds of it been in your family since, who are they to tell us that you have to pay for it again or put money into giving it to another family member, completely understand the shipping costs and all that but I'm referring to the FFL charge for receiving the firearm and i believe you were too. but you have to look at it from his business standpoint i suppose, if he were to not charge everyone for shipping and receiving firearms he could be losing thousands of dollars and being taken advantage of by everyone in town because they know he doesn't charge. I refuse to buy a firearm from anyone that is going to charge me for my background check or add it to the price of the firearm because i don't feel i should have to pay for said check thats my opinion and pretty much the same as a receiving fee, i already paid for the weapon and you want to charge me even more, its bull, but its business i suppose.
    Semper-Fi
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    Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
    Preserve our great republic and each God-given right,
    And pray to God to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    Hmm thanks for the clarification on USPS, ya that should be mega cheaper route to take than UPS, hopefully your FFL has no problems, the one i sent to i talked to him on the phone and he was just fine with accepting it as long as he runs a background check and blah blah, i completely agree with you, its your family's weapon, paid for long ago and has by the sounds of it been in your family since, who are they to tell us that you have to pay for it again or put money into giving it to another family member, completely understand the shipping costs and all that but I'm referring to the FFL charge for receiving the firearm and i believe you were too. but you have to look at it from his business standpoint i suppose, if he were to not charge everyone for shipping and receiving firearms he could be losing thousands of dollars and being taken advantage of by everyone in town because they know he doesn't charge. I refuse to buy a firearm from anyone that is going to charge me for my background check or add it to the price of the firearm because i don't feel i should have to pay for said check thats my opinion and pretty much the same as a receiving fee, i already paid for the weapon and you want to charge me even more, its bull, but its business i suppose.
    Oh trust me, I have no problem with an FFL covering his costs and charging a little for the convenience. I would have no problem at all, with a private sale, paying my local FFL the fee. What I'm chapped about is that I have to send it to the FFL in the first place. My bro should be able to send me family property without the need to even go through the FFL in the first place. That's the part that bugs me. I'm guessing here, but I think my dad got this in the late 70's, maybe early 80's. I remember it when I was a kid. So it's easily 30 years old. What I don't know is when he got it. He may have had it long before I was born. And especially since I could just pick it up from his house if we didn't live 1200 miles away.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Oh trust me, I have no problem with an FFL covering his costs and charging a little for the convenience. I would have no problem at all, with a private sale, paying my local FFL the fee. What I'm chapped about is that I have to send it to the FFL in the first place. My bro should be able to send me family property without the need to even go through the FFL in the first place. That's the part that bugs me. I'm guessing here, but I think my dad got this in the late 70's, maybe early 80's. I remember it when I was a kid. So it's easily 30 years old. What I don't know is when he got it. He may have had it long before I was born. And especially since I could just pick it up from his house if we didn't live 1200 miles away.
    yep thats understandable for sure! nice collectors item you got there i bet! get you a couple more of them if thats what your into and you can maybe get a collectors license and can have them shipped straight to you, but I'm not sure how to go about getting a antique or collectors license. Its awesome to hear its been in your family that long and way longer to come! i guess the only reasoning i can think of, of why they would make us go through a FFL if its a full weapon is because of the background check. not saying its good reasoning what so ever but i guess thats what there reasoning is, its your family's weapon, you think back in colonial days if a father wanted to ship his son who was at war his family's rifle he had to ship it to a FFL in the nearest town? its BS for sure
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    Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
    Preserve our great republic and each God-given right,
    And pray to God to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    yep thats understandable for sure! nice collectors item you got there i bet! get you a couple more of them if thats what your into and you can maybe get a collectors license and can have them shipped straight to you, but I'm not sure how to go about getting a antique or collectors license. Its awesome to hear its been in your family that long and way longer to come! i guess the only reasoning i can think of, of why they would make us go through a FFL if its a full weapon is because of the background check. not saying its good reasoning what so ever but i guess thats what there reasoning is, its your family's weapon, you think back in colonial days if a father wanted to ship his son who was at war his family's rifle he had to ship it to a FFL in the nearest town? its BS for sure
    Yeah I hear ya! I talked a little more to my bro. He doesn't remember a model number, but he said it's a Remington. Well obviously a light bulb clicked and I knew exactly what it is. It's an 870. Gotta be. I know it's a pump, 12Ga. Probably 26" maybe 28" vented rib barrel. I know it's got wood furniture. I'm guessing it's an 870 Wingmaster. That being the case it's not real valuable. I'll probably buy the accessories to convert it to a home defense gun in time. You can pick up everything and a kitchen sink for the 870. I'll hang on to the original parts for possible future, but I'll probably get an 18" barrel and synthetic furniture. But who knows, when I get it I might decide not to change it at all.

    Then again, I just saw a picture of a 1978 Rem 870 where they kept the wood and just cut the barrel down to 18" and added a mag extension. I'm not cutting this barrel, but that had a really nice look to it. I might just pick up an 18" barrel and leave it at that... Hmmm.... Unfortunately by the time I get everything organized and done, it'll be a month before I see it. You watch.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 07-31-2012 at 05:38 PM.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Yeah I hear ya! I talked a little more to my bro. He doesn't remember a model number, but he said it's a Remington. Well obviously a light bulb clicked and I knew exactly what it is. It's an 870. Gotta be. I know it's a pump, 12Ga. Probably 26" maybe 28" vented rib barrel. I know it's got wood furniture. I'm guessing it's an 870 Wingmaster. That being the case it's not real valuable. I'll probably buy the accessories to convert it to a home defense gun in time. You can pick up everything and a kitchen sink for the 870. I'll hang on to the original parts for possible future, but I'll probably get an 18" barrel and synthetic furniture. But who knows, when I get it I might decide not to change it at all.

    Then again, I just saw a picture of a 1978 Rem 870 where they kept the wood and just cut the barrel down to 18" and added a mag extension. I'm not cutting this barrel, but that had a really nice look to it. I might just pick up an 18" barrel and leave it at that... Hmmm.... Unfortunately by the time I get everything organized and done, it'll be a month before I see it. You watch.
    HA HA but sounds like some good plans, hopefully it doesn't take you forever to get it all done! Ive seen quite a few of them that are really nice looking with very few mods to them its a sturdy base to work with for sure. awesome to keep in the family and for defense if you mod it right for sure! worth it! hopefully youll share some pics when its all said and done would love to see the work you had done with it. Thanks for the share!
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    And to further the BS, the firearm is probably not registered now but once your local FFL does his thing it will be Natioanally registered to you

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    And to further the BS, the firearm is probably not registered now but once your local FFL does his thing it will be Natioanally registered to you
    Oh sure. Make me feel even better about it! Grrr.........

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    And to further the BS, the firearm is probably not registered now but once your local FFL does his thing it will be Natioanally registered to you
    Well in Colorado supposedly its prohibited to register any weapon, BUT what they do with it is there decision and I'm sure they do it, Lets say you go to your local FFL and he doesn't have the said weapon you want, he orders it for you, using his name and FFL license, its now registered from the company under his name and business unless he puts in who hes ordering it for, which most companies don't ask but its his choice to do that, then it comes he does the paper work and background check, you pay for it and on his records now you are the owner of it and its "registered" to you. its his choice if he then enters it into a database, which from what Ive heard is illegal, well prohibited in Colorado, but it is done and I'm sure it is. then from you only god knows where it goes or what its used for unless you keep the record of who its sold to. thats why its very important to know and trust your FFL your normally dealing with and know his policy's. Like one of the main FFL i deal with was very open about how he does things and says he will never register a weapon, BUT at the same time he said that by law (and i have yet to find said law) that if you buy more than two at one time that he has to register them into the ATF site and whatnot. which makes me a bit iffy since I'm not so great on the subject. really you have to trust the FFL and ask questions and if the answers are not to your liking walk away, because apparently FFL's handle things in very different ways. for the matter, who knows if when you take it in to a armorer if said armorer will go behind your back and register it because he can. really it all falls down to trust, and asking questions, because if you don't ask and never know whats being done with it then anything could be. I really hope most of them refuse to register them but I'm sure there are a few that do just because, or because they are mis informed about the laws. id say just ask the receiving FFL what his policy and feelings are on the matter and weigh it from there. i really hope you get it worked out and are able to get it shipped with no problems, or you'll have to wait for the chance that he or you meet up and hand it off at some point, shipping would be easier though and faster I'm sure. Good luck! like i said getting mine shipped was a "fun" time, but i had to deal with UPS so hopefully you have a much better time!
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Or, you can simply carry on your person...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member x1wildone's Avatar
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    Seems to me that a road trip is in order. It's time to visit your brother!

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Since you're talking an interstate transfer, the gun must go from him to his FFL, his FFL to your FFL and your FFL to you.

    Face to face requires none of that, do a road trip.

    You CAN directly ship a gun to an FFL anywhere -- in state or out of state -- for work or repair and they can ship it directly back to you. Note that no transfer from one party to another is involved in this case (I just recently did this with a Spike's receiver that had an issue with). Receivers and handguns cannot go USPS (USPS classifies receivers as handguns and they don't allow them).

    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 08-01-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Since you're talking an interstate transfer, the gun must go from him to his FFL, his FFL to your FFL and your FFL to you.

    Face to face requires none of that, do a road trip.

    You CAN directly ship a gun to an FFL anywhere -- in state or out of state -- for work or repair and they can ship it directly back to you. Note that no transfer from one party to another is involved in this case (I just recently did this with a Spike's receiver that had an issue with). Receivers and handguns cannot go USPS (USPS classifies receivers as handguns and they don't allow them).

    O2
    Clarification I found out. I called both FFL's. As long as my FFL is willing to accept shipment from a private party, he does not have to ship through an FFL. Also, I finally found something useful from the BATF. There is a list of can's and can'ts. You can ship directly to an FFL for transfer. So he doesn't have to use his FFL.

    Get this. If you want to ship a gun to yourself, you can. If you purchase a gun out of state, you can take it to the post office (btw, this is long guns only) and send it to yourself without shipping it to a FFL first. The idea being say you want to go hunting in Alaska and don't really want to fly with your guns. You can send them USPS unloaded to yourself care of the place your are staying. And vice versa.

    Here's the doc from the ATF:

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    Go to page 177:

    (B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
    A nonlicensee may not transfer a
    firearm to a nonlicensed resident of
    another State. A nonlicensee may
    mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of
    his or her own State or to a licensee
    in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by
    registered mail and that no marking of
    any kind which would indicate the
    nature of the contents be placed on
    the outside of any parcel containing
    firearms. Handguns are not mailable.
    A common or contract carrier must be
    used to ship a handgun.
    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm
    by a common or contract carrier to a
    resident of his or her own State or to
    a licensee in any State. A common or
    contract carrier must be used to ship
    a handgun. In addition, Federal law
    requires that the carrier be notified
    that the shipment contains a firearm
    and prohibits common or contract
    carriers from requiring or causing any
    label to be placed on any package
    indicating that it contains a firearm.
    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in
    hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm
    to himself or herself in care of another
    person in the State where he or she
    intends to hunt or engage in any other
    lawful activity. The package should
    be addressed to the owner. Persons
    other than the owner should not open 178
    the package and take possession of
    the firearm.
    Initially my main concern was strictly Colorado law and how it related. It appears there is no specific Colorado law that would contradict Federal law.

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    Domestic mail manual:

    http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm



    432 Mailability
    432.1 General

    The following conditions apply:

    Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as “handguns”) are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1.
    The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1 or 601.11.2.
    Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2.
    Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90—618) and
    18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.1b and c.


    Should be able to ship via US Post ... they might not know ... bring printout of DMM

  17. #17
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Oh, a road trip is too tough to deal with. He's 1200 miles away and he's rarely ever home long enough. His oldest daughter travels a lot with a U17 basketball team. (Which they are in San Diego finishing a tournament and her team beat the Chinese U17 team.)

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