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Legal Resident Aliens and the 2A

GTShooter

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Although I really dont like the term "Alien" it is mostly used and recognized so Ill go with that.

I have tons of friends that are Legally here in the US. Do they have the same right to Bear & Keep arms? At some point I believe I had read something about it but cannot seem to find it.
 
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mahkagari

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I work in translation and have a foreign born-wife so I've got lots of friends in this category. DW has her citizenship now, so she'd better not face any issues getting her CHP. Another friend had a delay on her background check because of her non-citizen status, but it eventually went through.
 

GTShooter

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Well my concern is misinforming them about OC. is there an article in the constitution or some type of law that excludes legal residents from OC?
 

mahkagari

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Well my concern is misinforming them about OC. is there an article in the constitution or some type of law that excludes legal residents from OC?

Not that wouldn't be applicable in any other "right", IMO. But that's the arguement over Gitmo.
 

M-Taliesin

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The second amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Note that it does not say the right of the citizen. It says the right of the people shall not be infringed.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

bogidu

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The second amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Note that it does not say the right of the citizen. It says the right of the people shall not be infringed.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

RIGHTS are something citizens have, not just visitors to the country. If it's not so, then what is the value in being a citizen?
 

Keens

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I had a friend from England who is a permanent resident and has a visa and was able to buy a handgun with no problems.
 

mahkagari

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RIGHTS are something citizens have, not just visitors to the country. If it's not so, then what is the value in being a citizen?

But are legal "permanent residents" visitors? Main value in being a citizen is being able to vote issues regarding said rights and not being able to have your residency status yanked from you.
 

Mike

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Permament resident aliens, i.e., green card holders, are treated the same as US citizens under the federal Gun Contol Act.

A couple courts have held state laws invalid as applied to resident aliens under Second Amendment analysis, but usually these alien cases are decided in favor of the resident aliens on equal protection grounds.

These cases google up pretty easy, many of them recent.

I expect all state statutes discriminating against resident aliens on guns to be extinct with about 18 months.
 

GTShooter

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Ill try to look them up on google thanks for the info and thanks all for your comments.
 

GTShooter

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Dont know if I missed something but this seems to be focused more on Illegal Alien Residents.
 

Jared

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RIGHTS are something citizens have, not just visitors to the country. If it's not so, then what is the value in being a citizen?

There have been plenty of court cases on this issue.

Graham v Richardson is the controlling case law.

There has been numerous cases in the past few years including but not limited to...

Fletcher v Haas
NRA V State of Washington
The Smith Case in South Dakota
The settlement in Omaha, Nebraska.

You are historically inaccurate about rights. The constitution uses the term people, and citizen.... both have meanings.

You are reading what you want into the document and ignoring the writings of some of the Founders and what the author of the 14th Amendment intended.

Eugene Volokh has written good reviews of this subject matter.

If rights are based on citizenship, then they are simply government granted privileges that can be revoked.

The value of being a citizen you ask? There are three actually...

1. The ability to never be deported or subject to immigration policy.

2. The right to vote

3. The ability for the U.S. Government to own your body and they demonstrate that by taxing U.S. Citizens worldwide, some who haven't lived here in years and some who have NEVER stepped foot in the United States.

North Korea and the United States are the only two countries who not only claim to own the land, but they also claim to own you... not even the U.K. or China taxes money earned outside of their boundaries.... just North Korea and The United States.
 
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GTShooter

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Just to add to Jared's post and provide more info as to who Legal Permanent Resident Aliens are


Who are LPRAs?

LPRs are aliens who are granted permanent residence in the United States of America after petitioning the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services. Most people obtain an LPR status (ie a “green card”) using an employment based application process or a family based petition. Other less common routes include political asylum, adoption, refugee status and diversity visa lottery. With the employment-based petition the aliens must show that they qualify as (in decreasing order of preference/priority, probability of successful petition and visa number availability):

Workers of extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics

Outstanding professors or researchers

Multinational managers

Advanced degree professionals.

Workers who because of their exceptional ability in the sciences, arts, or business will substantially benefit prospectively the national economy, cultural or educational interests, or welfare of the United States

Professionals with bachelor’s degrees

Skilled workers

The process includes extensive background checks (10-fingerprint FBI criminal background checks, namechecks), reports of medical exams by a US civil surgeon ruling out tubercolosis, HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea, chancroid, granuloma inglunalis, lymphogranuloma venereum, hensen’s disease, mental disorders and use of controlled substances. This is followed by a complete vaccination record and redo of immunization in case of its absence (DtaP, IPV, MMR, Hib, HepB, Varicella, Meningococcus, Rotavirus, …). The petitions require extensive supporting evidence, often including a labor certification, evidence of scientific production, citation in the press, reference letters, citation scores, honors and awards, etc. The success rate oscillates around 60% for the first and second priority categories, less for other groups. The process include ~$1800 in federal fees plus lawyer fees (up to $6000).
 

bogidu

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Eugene Volokh has written good reviews of this subject matter.

If rights are based on citizenship, then they are simply government granted privileges that can be revoked.

The value of being a citizen you ask? There are three actually...

1. The ability to never be deported or subject to immigration policy.

2. The right to vote

3. The ability for the U.S. Government to own your body and they demonstrate that by taxing U.S. Citizens worldwide, some who haven't lived here in years and some who have NEVER stepped foot in the United States.

North Korea and the United States are the only two countries who not only claim to own the land, but they also claim to own you... not even the U.K. or China taxes money earned outside of their boundaries.... just North Korea and The United States.

Firstly let me state, no, I have not studied this issue in detail but as time has gone on I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to do so.

If those are the 3 reasons, the first is irrelevant as immigration is unchecked, the second seems more and more pointless (although I do continue to do so) and the third makes me WANT to leave.

In a nutshell, if that is all citizenship in the great USA amounts to anymore, it's hard to continue being patriotic.

Oh, and as an aside, you're the second person in a month who has mentioned Eugene Volokh, I'm taking that as an omen ;)
 
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mahkagari

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The process includes extensive background checks (10-fingerprint FBI criminal background checks, namechecks), reports of medical exams by a US civil surgeon ruling out tubercolosis, HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea, chancroid, granuloma inglunalis, lymphogranuloma venereum, hensen’s disease, mental disorders and use of controlled substances. This is followed by a complete vaccination record and redo of immunization in case of its absence (DtaP, IPV, MMR, Hib, HepB, Varicella, Meningococcus, Rotavirus, …). The petitions require extensive supporting evidence, often including a labor certification, evidence of scientific production, citation in the press, reference letters, citation scores, honors and awards, etc. The success rate oscillates around 60% for the first and second priority categories, less for other groups.

[video=youtube;aM-trf4fpzo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-trf4fpzo[/video]

And when you've filled in all the forms
And been passed clear of all disease
Debriefed debugged dedrugged disarmed
And disinfected please
Don't forget the guys
Who cut your keys

The process include ~$1800 in federal fees plus lawyer fees (up to $6000).

Lawyers are overrated. If you've got time and patience, the info is all on CIS's website. What you pay a lawyer for is to have already read and memorized it all. And occasionally to be someone to blame for screwing up your paperwork.
 
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GTShooter

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When you have so much as they do on the line to have the opportunity to be in this country legally people much rather not risk it and hire someone familiar with the process. Not to mention not everyone comes already speaking the language or is familiar with all the different laws.

I can assure you it is an intimidating process.
 
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