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DA/SA transition too difficult? says who?

j4l

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Got some practice in, out back today, since the weather was nice for once.
Drill for today was 1 blast from shotty (#6 shot) @ 25 m, then advance while transitioning to the .45, and tap out a Mozambique...


tmjshot003.jpg





cept, I seem to have f-d up the Mozi.. 3rd shot should be much higher- @ head.. but..
1st shot-out of holster was DA/Hammer-down on round. 2 and 3 immediately after were SA. Ammo was 230 grain Lawman TMJ, not the GDHP pictured for group-size comparison.
Guess I need to work on timing that 3rd shot of the drill.. this one I fired off as fast as I could pull the trigger.

I suppose it depends on the pistol and the amount of practice one put;'s in, but neither "recoil" nor DA/SA were an issue here in the least.
 
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j4l

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I've never had a problem with the DA-to-SA transition. I really don't know what the fuss is about.

Well, it's just that I've heard a few folks here, and elsewhere go on and on about how "difficult" it is to shoot accurately,and rapidly, when going from DA 1st shot, to SA follow-on shots as though that were some sort of set-in-stone gospel....so,.....figured I'd demonstrate otherwise-for me, at least.
 

skidmark

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Single-action shooters seem to believe that the longer and heavier trigger pull of double action will force them to drop the muzzle and have the bullet impact low - possibly in the dirt at their feet!

DA/SA shooters seem to believe that SSA shooters who cannot keep their wrists straight through the DA pull deserve everything that is said about people with that affliction.:uhoh:

But then I hear there are folks who insist that the jelly side of a PBJ sammich must be on top so as not to get the PB stuck to the roof of their mouth. And that there are folks who cannot get a corner of the sammich in their mouths for the first bite unless said sammich was cut in triangles and not rectangles. Get used to doing a certain thing a certain way and I guess it will feel "wrong" if you then try to do it any other way.

stay safe.
 

Maine Expat

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I'm still working the kinks on that first DA shot with the long pull myself. I do pull it down, but usually hit the target in the legs or feet. Getting into the SA part isn't a problem though.
 

j4l

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I'm still working the kinks on that first DA shot with the long pull myself. I do pull it down, but usually hit the target in the legs or feet. Getting into the SA part isn't a problem though.

Hmm, not sure how to help with that, since I just dont have the issue. I'm going to guess it's a lot to do with a particular pistol, as to how good/bad/long etc. the DA pull is..I've fired some Makarovs that had horrible DA pulls-before getting a trigger-job,but the issue I had with those was I had a tendancy to torgue the pistol a bit to the right, as the finger pulled the trigger back- not down, or up..

Barrettas DA pulls were always just too long a reach for my short fingers, after wrapping around those thick grips- but same issue- a torgue to the right as opposed to pulling up or down..
 

Aknazer

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The only DA/SA gun that I shoot is a 92FS, and I only get to "practice" (if you can call it that) once a year and I only get to shoot 90 rounds. I find that when I go to shoot that initial shot, if I attempt to go at any speed other than slow/methodical (which is NOT the speed I would want to go at if I was having to deploy the firearm) then I end up pulling the gun to the left. I don't have this issue with my XDm or when the 92FS is on SA. I also don't seem to really have this issue with my wife's TCP which is DAO.

Maybe if I could practice with the gun more it would be different, but sadly I can't.
 

skidmark

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I'm still working the kinks on that first DA shot with the long pull myself. I do pull it down, but usually hit the target in the legs or feet. Getting into the SA part isn't a problem though.


The easiest cure is exercise - strengthen the arm/wrist against the pull of the trigger finger. Lots of dry firing, which means you will need snap caps. Enough practice to wear out at least two sets of them. (Yes, they do wear out!)

Another exercise is to put a pencil (long enough to stick out the end with the non-pointy end resting against the firing pin) down the barrel of an unloaded handgun and hold it so that the point is just barely touching some paper. (A nice painted wall also works, but you might end up needing to scrub pencil marks off.) Hold the gun at shoulder height and pull the trigger. If your pull is straight back and the barrel does not move you will get a pencil point mark. If not, you will see a line that shows which way the barrel moves and you can figure out if it is from the trigger finger or the wrist not being held.

Once you figure out what needs correction and have worked on it, you can try the circle-dot test. Set up a piece of paper at shoulder height. Draw a horizontal row of circles about the size of a dime, about 6 or 8 inches apart, across the paper. You will want at least 6 circles. Pencil long enough to just barely stick out the end down the barrel of the unloaded gun. Hold the gun between 1/4 and 1 inch from the paper, sight on the circle and fire. Everything working will give you a nice dot inside the circle. Not working right will either give you a line inside the circle (very bad) or a dot outside the circle (even worse).

Once you master dime-sized circles go progressively smaller until they are about the diameter of the pencil and you are getting dots inside all the circles.

These are old-timey training techniques which is why many of you young whippersnappers never heard of them. :)

stay safe.
 

Maine Expat

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Ukraine & Bangor Maine
Like the pencil practice thing.

My Bersa Thunder .45 really has an easy pull in DA, its just a long pull and I think I'm anticipating the bang too much and pull the muzzle down because of that. I do take too long to get the shots off, trying to aim instead of letting the pistol become an extension of my arm and just pointing it where I want the round to go. Again, I just need more practice time. Still, I feel like I've accomplished quite a bit getting 5 of 7 rounds on an 8x11 sheet of paper consistently.

I still have a few weeks left on my holiday and I'll be burning some FMJ up as I work through that issue.

Draw, sweep safety off,
Sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze.
Rinse & repeat over & over until the muscles are programmed where thought is no longer required to hit the target.
 

j4l

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Like the pencil practice thing.

My Bersa Thunder .45 really has an easy pull in DA, its just a long pull and I think I'm anticipating the bang too much and pull the muzzle down because of that. I do take too long to get the shots off, trying to aim instead of letting the pistol become an extension of my arm and just pointing it where I want the round to go. Again, I just need more practice time. Still, I feel like I've accomplished quite a bit getting 5 of 7 rounds on an 8x11 sheet of paper consistently.

I still have a few weeks left on my holiday and I'll be burning some FMJ up as I work through that issue.

Draw, sweep safety off,
Sight picture, breath control, trigger squeeze.
Rinse & repeat over & over until the muscles are programmed where thought is no longer required to hit the target.

Snap-caps are good for this, as well- for the DA pull, anyway. Build up muscle-memory of that DA pull, etc.
 

Felid`Maximus

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The only DA/SA gun that I shoot is a 92FS, and I only get to "practice" (if you can call it that) once a year and I only get to shoot 90 rounds. I find that when I go to shoot that initial shot, if I attempt to go at any speed other than slow/methodical (which is NOT the speed I would want to go at if I was having to deploy the firearm) then I end up pulling the gun to the left. I don't have this issue with my XDm or when the 92FS is on SA. I also don't seem to really have this issue with my wife's TCP which is DAO.

Maybe if I could practice with the gun more it would be different, but sadly I can't.

Why can you only practice once a year? Is the 92FS a gun you carry for self-defense? Military? Police work? Security? You can't even get a snap cap to practice the trigger pull with? Can you buy a D-Spring for it? (The D-Spring is used in the 92D and provides a better pull than the F spring, most people on the Beretta forum seem to think.)

If it is an issued gun you aren't allowed to practice with, you might want to get yourself one so that you can practice more than once a year.
 
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Phoenix David

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I'm still working the kinks on that first DA shot with the long pull myself. I do pull it down, but usually hit the target in the legs or feet. Getting into the SA part isn't a problem though.

Take the first accurately placed DA shot, de-cock, take accurately placed DA shot, rinse and repeat a couple of hundred times and it will not be a factor again.

It's not oga boga magic it's just effective practice.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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People who don't paractice enough with double to single actions.

All it takes is range time.

I shot and called single actions and double action handguns I really don't see much differant in hit times as long as one is well trained with the one he has.

I shoot them both well.
 

Aknazer

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Why can you only practice once a year? Is the 92FS a gun you carry for self-defense? Military? Police work? Security? You can't even get a snap cap to practice the trigger pull with? Can you buy a D-Spring for it? (The D-Spring is used in the 92D and provides a better pull than the F spring, most people on the Beretta forum seem to think.)

If it is an issued gun you aren't allowed to practice with, you might want to get yourself one so that you can practice more than once a year.

It's a military issued gun and as such I can't simply choose to go practice with it whenever I want (though I did have my wife send me some Snap Caps and a spare mag so that I can do a bit of practice while I'm downrange). Also I don't exactly have the spare money to buy a 92FS simply to be able to practice with it for when I deploy (since when I deploy is the only time I would carry the gun).
 

11B2O

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Jan 10, 2012
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Easy solution, carry it in single action :p I think because of these issues is why I carry striker fired guns only. And the 2 hammered fired guns I do have, they are single action only.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

skidmark

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It's a military issued gun and as such I can't simply choose to go practice with it whenever I want (though I did have my wife send me some Snap Caps and a spare mag so that I can do a bit of practice while I'm downrange). Also I don't exactly have the spare money to buy a 92FS simply to be able to practice with it for when I deploy (since when I deploy is the only time I would carry the gun).

http://www.opticsplanet.com/laserlyte-brand.html?ph=+18667035813&gclid=CM7ArMjU57ECFY2b7QodLmsA3Q

$100 is a significant chunk of change - until you balance it out against the cost of 5K rounds (not even factoring in shipping). I prefer the one that sits in the chamber because it allows draw&shoot exactly like it would be "in real life". Sorry, all you SAO folks, but there is just no way you can practice follow-up shots. Using the appropriate one of these http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/resources/CorrectionChartRight.pdf - for righties

http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/resources/CorrectionChartLeft.pdf - for lefties

and a target made of aluminum foil (scrunch it into a ball and then faltten it out carefully - makes for better reflection of the laser pulse) should get you all the practice you need without spending an additional penny. For more fun, make up 2-inch by 2-inch aluminum targets and pin the up around the house. Practice draw&shoot scenarios without travelling to a shoothouse or needing to purchase ammo. I do not care if you subscribe to "muscle memory" theories or not - your aim will improve over time.

Just so the FTC does not come trying to kick in my door - I am not paid by the company to shill their products. I spent my own money to buy their stuff. I just really like how they work and the results I get from using them.

stay safe.
 

Aknazer

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Easy solution, carry it in single action :p I think because of these issues is why I carry striker fired guns only. And the 2 hammered fired guns I do have, they are single action only.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

No service allows you to carry the gun in SA. Or at least, none allow non-Spec Ops to carry that way (I don't know how Spec Ops can carry and don't want to talk for them).

And thanks Skidmark, I'll be sure to take a look at that later.
 

11B2O

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Yea, I know how it is. I was referring the subject at hand, not specifically your instance. I wish they made the M9's so that you could carry it on safe on single action. Better yet, just replace it with the Glock 19 like ODA did. I guess it didnt really matter to me bc I always had the M4 or M14 EBR so I never got the M9.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Yea, I know how it is. I was referring the subject at hand, not specifically your instance. I wish they made the M9's so that you could carry it on safe on single action. Better yet, just replace it with the Glock 19 like ODA did. I guess it didnt really matter to me bc I always had the M4 or M14 EBR so I never got the M9.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Have used and carried both SA and DB/SA autos and trained hundreds in the use of DB/SA autos I personally don't see what the problem of useing a DB/SA auto. Or the need for SA only. With proper training and paractice there really isn't any differance with getting frist round or 2nd round or more hits.

Its all about the training and learning to use what you carry. If one doesn't train properly or enough one is going to have trouble with any thing you carry.

It dosen't take long when teaching to find out who in the class cares about what they are doing and the ones who do not care. The ones who don't care are the ones who well have a hard time no matter what type of firearm they are given.
 
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