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Thread: TCF Bank, Lone Tree Colorado: Does not Respect YOUR Rights!

  1. #1
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    TCF Bank, Lone Tree Colorado: Does not Respect YOUR Rights!

    Howdy Folks!
    My pal Pipster was at a TCF bank yesterday at Lone Tree. He had been in the bank approximately 45 minutes when he was approached by an assistant bank manager by the name of Justin Warner. Mr. Warner asked Pip if he is a law enforcement officer. Pipster told him he is just a law abiding citizen. The guy evidently asked Pip why he had a handgun, and Pip tells me he explained that open carry is legal in Colorado and he carries his sidearm for self defense. At that point, according to what I've been told, Mr. Warner told Pipster it is against federal law to carry a handgun in the bank. Pipster told him that isn't so. Mr. Warner then asked Pipster to put his handgun in his car.

    Pipster called me to relate this incident. I subsequently called the customer service number and ended up talking with a supervisor who identified himself as Diego. I asked him to articulate the TCF bank policy, and he was unable to do so. I demanded that he make that information available, explaining as I did that I would report what I learned to the OC community, and every gun rights group I can find. He told me he would find out and return my call before the end of the day with an answer. Around 5 or 6pm, Diego called me back to tell me he hadn't an answer yet, but would call me the following day (today) when he got an answer. To no surprise on my part, I did not hear from him this morning, so called back through and asked for him. After languishing on hold for awhile, I was told he is on another phone call and he'd call me back. I was not interested in being snow-balled any further, so I set about to uncover the number to the corporate offices. I found a number and spoke with a lady filling in for the CEO's secretary.

    I explained that open carry is legal in Colorado, and generally, corporations will follow the state law as pertains to open carry. She seemed to be of the opinion that they would likely do the same. She also commented that it sounded like Mr. Warner might need additional training in this regard. I asked why none of their lower level managers or supervisors could articulate the corporate policy in respect to Open Carry. She said that might need addressed, but they'd never had the question raised before. I noted that appeared to be the result of Mr. Warner's personal attitude rather than a matter of corporate policy. She said she'd get in touch with the appropriate people to get an answer on corporate policy. I told her I would very much like a copy of that policy in writing!

    Then, around 2pm today, I got a call from a gentleman who identified himself as John Maloney, with TCF Corporate Security. In his opening remarks he said, and this is as closely as I can quote from memory, "We don't have a specific policy that you can't walk into a TCF bank and defecate (i.e., to take a dump) on the floor! I told him that comparing open carry to taking a crap was a very inappropriate position, and hardly worthy of civil discourse. He told me he is a former cop, and a bunch of other useless information to impress me with his credentials. He then related how CCW holders here in Colorado receive very little training, aren't considered safe carrying a handgun in the bank, and if an incident took place and they decided to use their handgun, the bank didn't want liability. I explained that both Pipster and I received our training from a guy who trains Navy Seals, and we had to qualify on the range. I also explained that we practice our shooting skills frequently. I added that in an average year, law abiding citizens shoot 2800+ times per year, while cops only shoot about 300. I also noted that citizens shoot an innocent bystander only 2% of the time compared to police who shoot the wrong person some 11% of the time. I told him he should fear cops in his bank, not law abiding citizens.

    He then went on to explain how they will ask a gun carrier to leave their weapon in their car if they 'feel' uncomfortable, anxious or nervous about it. That would include customers, tellers, managers or anybody else who didn't care for the legally armed carrier openly carrying. I asked him whether they had similar prohibition against CCW carriers who came in concealed. He seemed to feel that was okay, but all the things he said earlier were in direct contradiction to that. I also reminded him that bank robbers seldom will show a handgun. They'll imply or suggest they have a gun, but seldom show one. Meanwhile, law abiding citizens carrying openly is hardly suggestive they are about to engage in a crime.

    Mr. Maloney also told me that he consults with security heads of other banks, such as Wells Fargo, Chase, and other banks. But the odd part is, Pipster has an account at Chase, and was never told to leave his sidearm in the car, nor chased out of the Chase bank. The same goes for my experience, where nobody has ever confronted me when openly carrying in a bank. So far as I can discern, Mr. Maloney is also anti open carry, and despite his protestations to the contary, feels that anybody who doesn't like a citizen who exercises his constitutional rights of self defense can cause a law abiding citizen to either disarm or leave.

    After spending a great deal of time telling me that he is all about NRA, 2a and all that sort of thing, the bottom line was:
    If we want to ask you to put your gun in the car, that's just the way things are.

    In my opinion, TCF bank does not care about your rights to lawful self defense. They do not have their banks posted to prohibit firearms as they know that would be an outrage not acceptable to a huge number of people who carry for self defense. Instead, they want things both ways... they want your money in their bank, but not your rights. They want your business, but not your sidearm. They want your patronage, but not your constitutional means of self defense.

    I would suggest that every citizen carrier who feels their rights are threatened by government should take a hard, cold look at TCF Bank. They pose a much more imminent threat to your rights. They do not deserve your business. They should be flooded by calls from gun carriers from coast to coast, border to border, complaining of their policy of no policy. They liken open carry to defecating on the floor of the bank. They seem to have no problem defecating on the Constitution, the rights of their customers to lawful self defense, and the individual who gives them business only to receive that material that rolls down hill to land all over their rights.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    I forgot to mention that Mr. Maloney of TCF Bank Corporate Security referred to folks being nervous as a result of the shooting in Aurora.
    In response, I said "Yes, a place where people died in greater number because nobody could shoot back. They have a no carry policy at their theater too. Where do all the mass shootings happen? The U.S. Postal Service is a gun free zone, but that's where mass shootings got started. The term 'going postal' came from the fact that shooters had nobody to stop them, so they killed lots of people. Or how about Columbine? Gun Free School Zones have given us mass shootings one after another. Is that what you want for your customers? A ready made victim pool?"

    Mr. Maloney acknowledged my point, but stood firm on the idea that anybody who felt nervous could result in the carrier being asked to remove his weapon from the property and leave it in their car.

    I should have mentioned that bearing of arms is protected by the constitution, which does not afford a similar right to people who 'feel' nervous about it, much less that such feeling should trump a constitutional right.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Firearm Friendly bank.. I am there almost daily..

    Farmer State Bank, Ellicott, CO

    As far as TCF.. They may be losing some accounts soon..

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Update:

    Howdy Folks!
    I called TCF Corporate offices back again and reported on how their corporate security guy said they don't have a specific corporate policy about somebody coming in and defecating on the bank floor as objectionable when use in regard to the exercise of Constitutional rights.

    The person I spoke with, unlike yesterday, was extremely terse, not at all friendly, and subsequently hung up on me.

    That's evidently what they think of your rights folks!

    Evidently they think carrying is crap, the Constitution is crap, and only theirs lacks aroma.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 08-02-2012 at 10:09 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    On a separate note about TCF I don't know why anyone would want to use them anyway. TCF has soooo many complaints that aren't related to the open carry issue. I've known way too many people that said TCF nickels and dimes you to death with fees for this, that and the other. Seems their customer service blows as well. Just google "TCF Bank complaints" and you'll get a slew of complaints...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=tcf+...ient=firefox-a
    Last edited by Scotsman; 08-02-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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    Regular Member GTShooter's Avatar
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    With out good customer service it is imposible for a business to survive.

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    I opened a Compass Bank account a couple of years ago to get a free iTouch. Their service has been shiite. I do most of my banking with Bellco Credit Union. I got a hefty credit line from Compass that doesn't cost me anything so long as I use it once a year. I buy one takeaway lunch every April and then stick the card back in the safe. It's just nice to have in case the efund and my other credit lines run out. Though, when April comes around and having to wait for a $4 bill in the mail and write a check (because of the hoops to go through for online bill pay from my Compass checking account) is more trouble than it's worth.

    I've got to finish paying for my safari with an international wire and Bellco can't do it. They need a US bank that partners with the international bank. Compass claims I can do it by visiting a branch, but South Africa wasn't on their list of countries they wire to. I think I'll OC and if they can't do the wire and/or harrass me for OCing, it'll be as good a reason as any to close the account.
    Last edited by mahkagari; 08-02-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTShooter View Post
    With out good customer service it is imposible for a business to survive.
    Bingo. As 50% of the customer service equation, however, I think it's important we play nice. That's never stopped me from OCing into a bank, but it's definitely given me pause for thought such that I find myself being as nice as I can be while OCing. I'm glad, though, and thing it fitting given our efforts to help advance our cause.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Bingo. As 50% of the customer service equation, however, I think it's important we play nice. That's never stopped me from OCing into a bank, but it's definitely given me pause for thought such that I find myself being as nice as I can be while OCing. I'm glad, though, and thing it fitting given our efforts to help advance our cause.
    Howdy Amigo!
    But what should our response be when nice fails, and the law abiding carrier is told to disarm?

    The guy from TCF bank compared our right to carry to somebody taking a dump on their floor!

    This is where the Barnham paradigm comes into play. So far as TCF bank is concerned, there are plenty of other suckers out there,
    so they're only too happy to show carriers the Great Egress!!!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  10. #10
    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    The guy from TCF bank compared our right to carry to somebody taking a dump on their floor!
    Well, maybe someone should go take a dump in the middle of their lobby to test their lack of "no dumping on the floor" rule?

    Sorry Mel, I couldn't resist...I'm ashamed...no, really I am!
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    Well I won't ever be banking there after that happened! I've always had a weird feeling about that bank anyways. Kinda a spidey sense deep down there was something shady about that bank. I'll just stick with FirstBank, they've always been good to me and their customer service is decent. I've never had a problem with them. I've had several banks in the past such as Public Service CU and Bellco and I've had problems with them messing up my accounts before I switched to FirstBank.

    The comment the chief of security made about comparing OC to taking a crap on the bank floor is just pure unprofessional! I don't want people like that taking care of my hard earned money! I hope your friend made the wise choice to close his account and find another bank who actually takes care of their customers and respects their rights.

    Keens

  12. #12
    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
    On a separate note about TCF I don't know why anyone would want to use them anyway. TCF has soooo many complaints that aren't related to the open carry issue. I've known way too many people that said TCF nickels and dimes you to death with fees for this, that and the other. Seems their customer service blows as well. Just google "TCF Bank complaints" and you'll get a slew of complaints...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=tcf+...ient=firefox-a
    Exactly, first and foremost thing I want from my bank is for them to properly take care of my money.

    I was with a small bank back in CA that was eventually bought by Bank of the West by the time I'd moved to CO. Never had any issues with them, in any aspects.

  13. #13
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
    Well, maybe someone should go take a dump in the middle of their lobby to test their lack of "no dumping on the floor" rule?

    Sorry Mel, I couldn't resist...I'm ashamed...no, really I am!
    Howdy Pardner!
    No need to be sorry amigo! I actually thought it might be appropriate. Just as the comment made suggesting our rights are crap.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    I have been a customer at Chase for over 10 years. I had a small incident with the manager at the Chase Castle Rock, but after doing some research she apologize the next day, stating that they observe state law and as long as you do not come in waving and shouting, they will respect your right to carry a firearm. I have been in many Chase Banks in the metroplex and I have not encountered any problems since the regional Chase manager was made aware of my situation and they have conducted additional training for their personnel, and all is good with the world.

    So, this TCF Security Supervisor is blowing smoke if he claims that that he speaks to security at Chase. Keep on top of this and I love the reference to taking a dump in the lobby, as maybe we should just do that since there is no prohibition against it...

  15. #15
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    I have been at FirstBank for about ten years now. They have treated both me any my money very well. I have Oc'd into many of thier locations here in Lakewood, with never any problem.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I have been at FirstBank for about ten years now. They have treated both me any my money very well. I have Oc'd into many of thier locations here in Lakewood, with never any problem.
    I've heard nothing negative regarding FirstBank and OC....they are my bank too and they've never treated me poorly or failed to promptly respond to any issues that I bring to their attention (fraud on my accounts, etc) but I've never personally OC'd into any of their branches.
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