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Thread: New to the forum, been OCing for a few months now!

  1. #1
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    New to the forum, been OCing for a few months now!

    Hey all, i turned 18 in April and have been OCing since then. pretty regularly actually. It started out more or less just in my car and leaving it in there but im starting to go into more and more places with it. I have never really had a problem ever OCing but ive never ran into any leo or gotten stopped or anything. but most people seem fine with it.

    I had one night i was at 711 and a worker asked if i had a reason i carry the gun i just responded "nothing specific i just carry in case i ever needed it" and that was basically it. couple other times that ive been asked about it but nothing serious.

    However i do have a question, If i get stopped, and whether i let the leo know im carrying or he just notices it on his own, if he asks to see the gun/run the serial number and or asks me to unload it, do i have to comply in anyway? do i have the legal right to keep the gun on me and loaded since its on my person/ in my vehicle and he has no reason to or can he claim officer safety etc? does he have to ask or can he just reach for it? case law or any ORS regarding this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Good questions.

    I would suggest that you do not handle your firearm in the presence of a LEO who contacts you.

    Be calm, confident and cordial. Defend your rights in a manner that is polite yet firm. Know the law(s) and keep chatter to a minimum. Heck, even maintaining a smile will go a long way in keeping the level of tension down to a bare minimum. Not every LEO is out to hassle you or infringe upon your rights. But, you will not know this until it happens. Regardless of the circumstance you are at the pleasure of the LEO and your maturity level will bode you well in the outcome of the contact. Adults tend to treat other adults as adults.

    No one here can tell you what to do, we can only provide anecdotal evidence and impart our experiences. Each contact is unique and the outcome is entirely up to you and the LEO.

    Please understand that LEOs are not out to get you.....until you are contacted by one that seems to be out to get you.

    Carry a recording device and be safe.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO. It's nice to see folks taking responsibility for their own lives instead of waiting for the cops to come and draw lines around you cold, dead body.

    I'll defer to local folks on citations to Oregon law, but
    1 - unless they show you something that requires you to notify the LEO that you are carrying, my advice is to just say nothing.

    2 - if a LEO legally or illegally tells you they want to look at your handgun they are not desiring to admire the asthetics of steel and/or thermoplastic. Keep your hands away from it, tell the LEO something along the lines of "I refuse to consent to a search of my person or possessions but will not physically resist any attempt to violate my 4th Amendment rights." Adjust it as you like so lomg as the refusal and non-resisting are clear.

    3 - I second the suggestion to get a digital audio recording device and to carry it, turned on, from the time you leave the house until you get back in for the day. I could have saved myself considerable time, trouble and expense if I had gone back for mine when I noticed (2 blocks away from home) that I did not have it with me. (Look up my user name and Surry County for the gory details - use the advanced search function here on OCDO.) Very adequate recorders can be found at Wally World for under $40.00 - and they will have at least 48 hours of recording time. One with an integral USB connector is recommended over any other method of transferring your recordings to a hard drive.

    4 - You may want to think about what answer you want to give when asked why you carry. For myself I have a number of answers I give - ranging from "Because I can" said to the hoplophobe who wants to know why I'm "wearing that horrible device for killing people" to http://www.handgunrepairshop.com/Why...rry_a_gun.html . My point is, if you have considered the matter you will have a better chance of sounding like you are not just winging your response.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Welcome Astromech,

    I'll third the suggestion to get a voice recorder and to carry it wherever you go. In Oregon you have to inform others that you are recording them though, so it might be impractical to record the entire day. Instead have it someplace readily available and not near your firearm so you could access it in a non-threatening way if need be.

    If you are detained by a police officer, then there is reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you've committed a crime. If the officer has RAS, and he knows you have a firearm, then he can temporarily seize your firearm for his safety. Citation (it's from NM, but I'm pretty confident other jurisdictions have found the same thing): http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs...nm-gungrab.pdf

    If you haven't done anything wrong however, and the officer is detaining you just because you have a firearm and he can't cite any legitimate reason other than "You're walking around with a gun on your hip," then he has no lawful ability to seize your weapon or anything else for that matter. In either case, if he says he's going to seize anything of yours, make your objections quite clear, say them three or four times so it is ingrained in his head. On the other hand if he asks you for your firearm you can refuse ("You're asking? No thanks.").

    Be aware of cities that ban loaded open carry without a CHL. Stay out of the post office and any public buildings (city halls, libraries, police stations, etc.) until you're 21 and have a CHL. I'd be cognizant about where schools are since technically the federal Gun-Free School Zone act is still on the books, but I've only heard of it being used when some other crime is taking place (like selling drugs while armed within 1000' of a school).

    Stay safe, don't talk to cops, and thanks for carrying.

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys!

    I definitely know not all LEO's are out to get me as i work with some of them for SAR there mostly a bunch of nice people. every encounter traffic violation wise has always been a positive one where no ticket was being given to me.

    However if i keep my sidearm on my hip while driving and the leo asks to see for my id, and i have to reach into my wallet, that is when it might be a good idea to inform them that im not reaching for a gun that is place close to my wallet. i carry a recorder app on my phone.

    anyways, it seems like if there telling me to then do it but tell them i dont consent to there search and if there asking refuse.

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromech_kuhns View Post
    However if i keep my sidearm on my hip while driving and the leo asks to see for my id, and i have to reach into my wallet, that is when it might be a good idea to inform them that im not reaching for a gun that is place close to my wallet. i carry a recorder app on my phone.

    anyways, it seems like if there telling me to then do it but tell them i dont consent to there search and if there asking refuse.
    That all sounds reasonable to me.

    I definitely know not all LEO's are out to get me as i work with some of them for SAR there mostly a bunch of nice people. every encounter traffic violation wise has always been a positive one where no ticket was being given to me.
    I have a lot of law enforcement in my family and I've hung out a lot with law enforcement while growing up. When you're on their side they are totally normal, civil people. It's when you are perceived as being a bad guy or somebody who doesn't want to give up your rights ("fully cooperate" as they would say), then their attitude will change and you'll be quite surprised. I've literally had a family member who is in law enforcement that I shouldn't have done anything when a cop forcefully pushed me while I was standing over my bike, causing me to fall into the wall I was next to. No, "you were in the right", no "that's awful, I can't believe that happened," just, "don't get into it with the police, because you're gonna lose".

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