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Thread: Just out of curiosity.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity.

    Providing that a person had the proper paperwork on file with the proper authorities, and kept copies/originals of the authorizing papers to own, and possess a sidearm with a suppressor; exactly how legal would that be to openly carry just as though their sidearm didn't have such an item attached?

    I don't recall any of our OC friendly rulings, cases, or KRS statues explicitly barring someone from OC'ing, say, a Beretta 82FS w/ suppressor. But is there some other law, or ruling on the state level, that allows for the barring of carrying such a attachment openly on ones person?

    Reason I asked, was, a friend got a job at a semi-local pawnshop that also dabbles in the selling of Suppressors, and such, and tried to get me to jump through all the hoops just so he could get a pay bonus for referring someone, etc. I declined, mostly because I cannot fathom any holster being able to safely, and easily holding secure a pistol with a silencer on it, let alone making it anything less than a chore to have to quickly unholster it, and I can't justify to myself even owning such a thing.

    Though it does make me wonder further, how much of a s%#tstorm someone could get into, if they had used a suppressed sidearm in a self-defense scenario, whether or not the weapon was discharged. How easy would it be to convince a judge and/or jury that the person in question shouldn't be considered a tacticool loon for having it, xD
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    As long as one could provide the Tax Stamp paperwork, it would be completely legal to carry in Kentucky.

    Feasible to carry, most likely not.

    I've been toying with the idea of a .22 suppressor. Keene's Depot in Bardstown deals in Class 3 NFA items.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I don't see why you couldn't open carry it. I still wouldn't though. It has more disadvantages than advantages. It would be harder to carry (without breaking/bending something), it would be harder to draw and it would bring a lot of undue attention.

    This being said, I would love to have a quality suppressor. Not for the OC aspect, but for the shooting/hunting/plinking aspect.
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Well, that does settle my curiosity a little, xD

    Oh, I completely agree on it being more trouble than it's worth for solely OC purposes. I don't even go hunting anymore, and the time and effort and money for just something for target shooting is such a turn off, lol, like I said, can't even justify having it, xD.

    But then again, a part of me wants to go through all the paperwork and trouble, if only to be even more of a black-sheep in the OC movement, xD.

    Oooh, hmm, continuing the thread spirit thingy, what would be the ideal calibre/sidearm type for Suppressed open carry? Like, would anyone here, if they could or would, carry a sidearm that looked more tactical/militaristic, or more civilian, as in, a stainless steel sidearm with supp, something flashy and opposite of a military wannabe; or something more like a M9?
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    .45acp with an heavy bullet (230gr) would be idea. Three things make noise when you fire a firearm. The action cycling (if it is an automatic), the gases expanding, and the projectile breaking the sound barrier.

    The suppressor only quietens the sound of the gasses expanding. So to get the firearm quieter you should choose a round slow enough that it does not reach the sound barrier. The problem with this is that small rounds don't carry (usually) enough energy to be effective unless they are moving super sonic. That is why a 230gr .45 round would be best in my opinion.


    I am wanting a suppressor for my .223 because right now, without hearing protection, I get my ears ringing on the first shot.
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    My favorite movie stupidity is the suppressed revolver.
    May I present to you the Mosin Nagant 1895 revolver.



    This revolver can work with a suppressor because when the hammer is pulled back the cylinder moves forward to meet the barrel thus creating a seal to where the gas can't escape. So now you know...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0&sns=em

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    I bet you do. I have a Mini-14 with a 14 inch barrel and I wear ear plugs with muffs over them when I shoot it. I also have a 7 inch barrel for my M-16. I can clear all the shooters from the entire range at Knob Creek when I shoot it. You should see the fireball.

    Rub it in old timer! If you don't mind me asking, how well does the 7 inch barrel work on your M-16 when firing full-auto?
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    About a week a go I got to shoot a .22 Ruger as well as a .22 rifle with a silencer. Pretty sweet but no practical purpose. And as Gutshot said, it doesnt make the "speww speww" sound that you hear on the movies. The only thing you can really hear is the mechanial movements of the gun itself. The friend that owns it had to go through the ATF of course, pay around 200 bucks on fees and wait about six months. He made a comment that he may or may not be corect on, but he said that he pretty much gave up his 4th admendement rights in regards to the ATF wanting to "inventory" his guns now at any given time.

    I wouldn't like the idea that if "they" knocked on my door that I would have to let them search my home just because I legally bought a silencer. Then again he may just be FOS..
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  9. #9
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    About a week a go I got to shoot a .22 Ruger as well as a .22 rifle with a silencer. Pretty sweet but no practical purpose. And as Gutshot said, it doesnt make the "speww speww" sound that you hear on the movies. The only thing you can really hear is the mechanial movements of the gun itself. The friend that owns it had to go through the ATF of course, pay around 200 bucks on fees and wait about six months. He made a comment that he may or may not be corect on, but he said that he pretty much gave up his 4th admendement rights in regards to the ATF wanting to "inventory" his guns now at any given time.

    I wouldn't like the idea that if "they" knocked on my door that I would have to let them search my home just because I legally bought a silencer. Then again he may just be FOS..
    I'm not sure if they can actually, and legally do that, without a warrant; However, I've heard pretty much the same thing out of the friend of mine, and again, from an old friend who resides in Ohio, Up by Dayton to be precise, he hold's a Class 3 [or is it class 2?] permit, I've visited him many times, and we've played with his toys, but yea, he has mentioned about because he owns these auto weapons, and has supressors, that the ATF can come waltzing in any time they want.

    Trust me, I'm not about to turn over my rights just to have a cool can that makes my pistol go *pew pew* in a tacticool way, xD Though how practical would it be to spend 200$ in fees, and another 100-200$ for a silencer, to use on a 140$ pistol? xDNow if I had the Tuarus PT100 40cal, Oh yea, I'd need a stainless steel can to match it.

    Off topic for a moment, speaking of the PT100, my friend is trying to get me to upgrade from my Hi-point, and he said he'd knock off a hundred bucks on his PT100; Stainless steel, five inch ported barrel with a green laser attached, for 499$ is it worth it? I like it cause it's .40sw and I dont have to buy another type of ammo, but then again, I did see a nice Rock Island Armory 1911 .45 for 450$, stainless as well. xD The BF told me to take the 1911, but I can't stop thinking of the pt100, it just looks cool, and flashy~

    Always loved the beretta line, especially the 92fs, but im not a fan of the 9MM >.> and don't know much about rock island, like, at all... Good brand? good gun? good price?
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 08-03-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I have always read/heard that the Rock Island Armory (RIA) is a solid "entry level" 1911. If you just want a cheap 1911 to know if you will like the 1911, then it is highly suggested to start with a RIA. Or if you want to build a 1911 to fully understand what you want and the internal operations of the gun, then the RIA 1911 is a good buy.

    If you want a 1911 with all the bells and whistles then don't think it is best to get a RIA and then upgrade it. You will be in for as much (if not more) upgrading the parts to name brand parts and the resale value won't even be worth what you paid for the parts.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    About a week a go I got to shoot a .22 Ruger as well as a .22 rifle with a silencer. Pretty sweet but no practical purpose. And as Gutshot said, it doesnt make the "speww speww" sound that you hear on the movies. The only thing you can really hear is the mechanial movements of the gun itself.
    A .22 with "subsonic" ammo is very quite. Have an unwanted pest in your yard? A suppressed .22 will take care of it without waking your neighbors. Want to ditch the ear protection for some reason? A suppressor does have practical purposes and their advantages. The question is though, are you willing to pay the 200 tax stamp and the 300+ for a suppressor?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    A .22 with "subsonic" ammo is very quite. Have an unwanted pest in your yard? A suppressed .22 will take care of it without waking your neighbors. Want to ditch the ear protection for some reason? A suppressor does have practical purposes and their advantages. The question is though, are you willing to pay the 200 tax stamp and the 300+ for a suppressor?
    I see your points but as you say, I'm not willing to spend that kinda of money. Now if I had money to burn, I would have a drawer full of them. Fun toy, but to much hassle and money for my blood..
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    The question is though, are you willing to pay the 200 tax stamp and the 300+ for a suppressor?


    If not for the NFA, tax stamp, and registry nonsense restricting the market, we'd have $50 suppressors all over the place.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Providing that a person had the proper paperwork on file with the proper authorities, and kept copies/originals of the authorizing papers to own, and possess a sidearm with a suppressor; exactly how legal would that be to openly carry just as though their sidearm didn't have such an item attached?...
    More specifically, is mere possession of a suppressor considered RAS for a LEO to verify that it is registered?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    About a week a go I got to shoot a .22 Ruger as well as a .22 rifle with a silencer. Pretty sweet but no practical purpose. And as Gutshot said, it doesnt make the "speww speww" sound that you hear on the movies. The only thing you can really hear is the mechanial movements of the gun itself. The friend that owns it had to go through the ATF of course, pay around 200 bucks on fees and wait about six months. He made a comment that he may or may not be corect on, but he said that he pretty much gave up his 4th admendement rights in regards to the ATF wanting to "inventory" his guns now at any given time.

    I wouldn't like the idea that if "they" knocked on my door that I would have to let them search my home just because I legally bought a silencer. Then again he may just be FOS..
    You can relieve yourself of all this hassle if you develop an NFA firearm's trust. I'm not very knowledgable of this avenue, but I am researching the possibility. I'm sure someone else here could give you better information concerning a trust. I do know this removes many of the burdens such as the CLEO signature and certain registration requirements.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You do not give up your 4th amendment rights by registering NFA items.

    They can call and make an appointment if they need to talk to you for some reason, and that appointment can be at their office. You never need to let him your home without a warrant, period.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    More specifically, is mere possession of a suppressor considered RAS for a LEO to verify that it is registered?
    Who is authorized by law to see your tax paperwork?
    It's a tax stamp.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Who is authorized by law to see your tax paperwork?
    It's a tax stamp.
    Okay. I'm not sure if you answered my question or not.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Okay. I'm not sure if you answered my question or not.
    You must keep your tax stamp and paper work with every NFA item you own. Meaning, if you were to OC a suppressor, you would have to keep all paper work on your person with the item. It is like a CDWL and carrying a concealed weapon, an officer can look over your "papers" to make sure you are legally possessing the item (it is illegal to possess these weapons without registration). I don't agree with it, but that is the hand we have been dealt. We should be able to purchase any NFA item just as we can non NFA items, as we should be able to carry them without having to show our "papers.".
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Are you certain of that?
    In most states, drinking alcohol and tobacco are taxed and must have stamps affixed to the bottle or cigarette package (at least from memory, I haven't seen either in 10 years.) Does Officer Friendly have the authority to see if the package of smokes in your shirt pocket is wearing a properly affixed tax stamp?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Are you certain of that?
    In most states, drinking alcohol and tobacco are taxed and must have stamps affixed to the bottle or cigarette package (at least from memory, I haven't seen either in 10 years.) Does Officer Friendly have the authority to see if the package of smokes in your shirt pocket is wearing a properly affixed tax stamp?
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/367276_.html

    It is not necessary to carry the actual tax stamp along with the NFA item but it is necessary to be able to conclusively demonstrate that the tax was paid and the stamp issued. The only folks who need to see the actual stamp are BAFTEIEIO agents and they cannot require you to produce it on the spot. Some states have laws that prohibit possession of NFA firearms "unless possessed in accordance with federal law." Non-ATFEIEIO cops in those states can demand to see proof that your silencer is possessed in accordance with federal law in order to determine that a state law violation has not occurred.

    As to your specific question - while Ossifer Friendly usually is not be empowered to investigate whether or not the federal tax stamp for alchohol or tobacco is affixed, he can investigate whether or not the state tax has been paid. The only way he can determine if the state tax has been paid is by seeing the federal tax stamp which is affixed only after the state tax is paid. Sort of round-about, but as long as he stays within his authorization to enforce state law and does not venture into trying to enforce a federal law he is not authorized to enforce, he still gets to look at the stamp.

    Easier to understand than a used car warranty, isn't it?

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    So sad that the burden of proof lies on the shoulders of law abiding citizens.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    :O So, wait, Gutshot isn't single!? Ah well, C'mere Hotrod

    On a less than serious, but more than jokingly so~

    How hard is it exactly, to obtain all the permission, and form waiting and stuff, to get a NFA suppressor, or, assuming it's labeled under the same process as going for a NFA Auto weapon, whats the difficulty in getting the forms and permission to own a non-firing howitzer, or replica firing civil war cannon? I'm really tired of finding my nosy neighbor helping himself to my backyard garden [CCTV confirmed], and want more of a deterrent to people who insist on using my drive-way to make a turn-around. LOL.

    I want a Howitzer. Fill the barrel with concrete, dun care, just having it pointing down my driveway >.>
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 08-05-2012 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling
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    Yep, you can have a fully working modern howitzer for the same $200 tax stamp, if you can find someone to sell it.

    The problem, aside from the outrageous cost of feeding the beast, is that each individual explosive projectile would also be a destructive device that had to be taxed and registered.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken, all muzzle loading cannons are exempt for the law. I remember reading somewhere (you know how reliable that is) that only breech loading weapons, such as modern cannons, are DDs.
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