Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Texas Carry FAQ

  1. #1
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661

    Texas Carry FAQ

    I've been meaning to post this for a while, but between getting sick, scrambling to find a job and new place to live I haven't really had much time or energy.

    I still don't really have any energy, I always feel drained. But whatever. It needs to be done, not just for the newbies, but for us as a convenient place to find information regarding carry laws in Texas. I have a bad memory and can't just recall stuff on command, something needs to prompt a memory. So I can't really remember all the questions. So I ask for help from my fellow Texans in making this FAQ.

    This will be the first draft, so it's going to be really rough. But I'll check it constantly and update with new questions and corrections. Please bare in mind that these early drafts wont be the final format. Once we finally get a strong list of questions, I'll reformat the entire thing to be easier to read/find information.

    Now on to the meat and potatoes!

    1. Is it legal to open carry in Texas?
    A. With a very few exceptions, it is not legal to open carry a handgun. The few exceptions that exist are on your own private property or property you have control of, traveling and hunting. Traveling has, as far as I know, not been defined. I personally recommend not utilizing this exception. Others have and have done so successfully. But the point of this FAQ is not to educate you on how to push the laws, but to give you a good idea of what the laws are like in Texas. I can not, in good faith, recommend this exception to anyone.

    2. Is it legal to carry in a bar?
    A. Yes and no. There are two types of bars in Texas, those that have blue liquor licenses and those that have red liquor licenses. It is illegal to carry into any establishment that has a red liquor license. Red licenses are also referred to as 51% licenses. The distinction is that a red license is required for an establishment that derives 51% or more of it's profits from the sell of alcohol for consumption on premises. These establishments are required by law to post a 51% sign at the entrance. As long as the bar has neither a 51% sign, nor a 30.06 sign, it is legal to carry there.

    3. Do signs have weight of law in Texas?
    A. To the best of my knowledge, there are only two signs that carry weight of law in Texas. The 30.06 sign, which is a reference to the statute which gives it power and a 51% sign, which references the distinction between the two types of bars. There are very specific requirements which regulate these signs. If the signs do not meet these requirements, they will have no weight of law.

    Ok, unfortunately my brain has stopped functioning at this point! I need a nap or maybe some coffee. Where is my secretary, I mean sister, when I need her!?

    To do list:

    • Fix inaccuracies
    • Add more questions
    • Add quotes, sources and citations
    • Add images of proper signs
    • Fix brain


    Input is totally welcome! Again, this is a very early rough draft. I'm just laying out the ground work before I begin the heavy construction so to speak. This just helps me get the ball rolling.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    596
    As for weight of law in relation to signs, a simple "no knives" sign does have weight. 51% and 30.06 apply to licensed carry of a handgun. As we already know, it is illegal to carry handguns without a license, so no signs apply to unlicensed carry of a handgun due to it being illegal. Carry a handgun without a license past 51% or inside a TABC licensed to sell beer establishment, Your Getting Charged With A Felony...
    Knives can be restricted with a simple sign.
    Rifles and Shotgun have different rules. They are only restricted by prohibited places and of course, a simple sign can be posted against them, but not 51% or 30.06 for they apply to handguns only.

    More Please
    Oh yea, let make it clear that Beer Bars do not restrict Licensed Concealed Carry. "This should start some questions" LOL
    Last edited by MR Redenck; 08-03-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs. CO
    Posts
    924
    A very good idea JackHouse. Also - I generally agree that relying upon the "traveling" exception to 46.02 applicability is a virtual tight-rope over a mine field, and should probably not be relied upon beyond the scope of very limited exposure.

    The traveling exception is STILL THE LAW however, and anyone genuinely "traveling" has a very good legal argument. The problem is that law enforcement in Texas has shifted to the "CHL" concept, and the "traveling" exception just doesn't seem to carry the weight that it once did.

    I normally restrict my outside of vehicle open carry while "traveling" in Texas to fueling at the pump, parking areas, and when utilizing roadside rest area facilities. The "Traveling" exception is still on the books in Texas - and IT IS THE LAW. I have yet to have had a problem with this practice. That having been said - that is MY PERSONAL experience. When "traveling" in Texas I do so with a Colorado DL, Colorado vehicle registration, and plenty of luggage which pretty well documents my "traveling" status.

    Whether I'm in Colorado, or Texas I reserve my right to choose the manner of carry that I feel under the circumstances most adequately ensures the safety of my wife, and myself.

    Hopefully , come the next legislative session in Austin, Texas will at least catch up with Oklahoma by enacting unrestricted licensed handgun carry.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 08-03-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    A very good idea JackHouse.
    Thank you, but the idea isn't only mine. A lot of people have been talking about doing it, just no one has acted. Indecisiveness and procrastination annoy me. Just ask my friends, anytime they start debating about what to do, I usually put my foot down very sternly and make the decision for them.

    Both my best friends are horribly indecisive, fortunately neither of them mind me calling the shots. I just don't like doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    Also - I generally agree that relying upon the "traveling" exception to 46.02 applicability is a virtual tight-rope over a mine field, and should probably not be relied upon beyond the scope of very limited exposure.

    The traveling exception is STILL THE LAW however, and anyone genuinely "traveling" has a very good legal argument. The problem is that law enforcement in Texas has shifted to the "CHL" concept, and the "traveling" exception just doesn't seem to carry the weight that it once did.

    I normally restrict my outside of vehicle open carry while "traveling" in Texas to fueling at the pump, parking areas, and when utilizing roadside rest area facilities. The "Traveling" exception is still on the books in Texas - and IT IS THE LAW. I have yet to have had a problem with this practice. That having been said - that is MY PERSONAL experience. When "traveling" in Texas I do so with a Colorado DL, Colorado vehicle registration, and plenty of luggage which pretty well documents my "traveling" status.

    Whether I'm in Colorado, or Texas I reserve my right to choose the manner of carry that I feel under the circumstances most adequately ensures the safety of my wife, and myself.
    I agree. I'm just uncomfortable with discussing the issue too much, though I think a good idea might be to link to your post about your experiences. I think you made a thread about it once, yes? Might be a good resource for those that consider using that exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    Hopefully , come the next legislative session in Austin, Texas will at least catch up with Oklahoma by enacting unrestricted licensed handgun carry.
    This is my hope as well. It appears that I am going to be stuck in Texas quite a while longer, would be nice to be able to OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    As for weight of law in relation to signs, a simple "no knives" sign does have weight.
    Really? I never really even considered the possibility. Do you have a cite or know the statute this is under?

    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Oh yea, let make it clear that Beer Bars do not restrict Licensed Concealed Carry. "This should start some questions" LOL
    Yeah, misconceptions about bar carry are very pervasive and annoying. I do my best to educate people, but unfortunately without direct access to the statutes, it's very difficult out in the wild where it is most needed. Grrrr

  5. #5
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Gah! My brain is a little bastard. Come here with intent to fill out more, only to completely lose my train of thought. Been sitting here for like an hour trying to remember what I was going to do.

    Edit:

    What are the laws regarding consumption of alcohol while carrying?

    In Texas it is not illegal to have a drink while carrying, it is illegal to carry while intoxicated. This includes any substance that can/will intoxicate you and not just alcohol. Intoxication isn't defined in this part of the law. It's my belief that the definitions found in Texas PC 49.01 are a good measure to go by. If choose to drink while you carry, please remember your limits and realize you do so at your own risk.

    PC 49.01 Definitions:
    (2) "Intoxicated" means:
    (A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
    (B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.


    Open Carry Travel Exception:
    Ugh, rewording this one is going to take a while.

    What does concealed mean?
    Seems like a silly question, but I actually see it a lot. Concealed means concealed. Leave no part of your handgun exposed, and avoid printing(when the outline of your side arm becomes visible through your clothing) to the best of your ability. But accidental exposure isn't illegal and bulges aren't printing. If your gun accidentally becomes exposed, or you get some really blatant printing, excuse yourself to somewhere private and just fix it. These moments can be pretty heart stopping, particularly if your gun becomes exposed and people see it. My experience is that few people will actually care. My gun has been exposed a number of times, including one horribly embarrassing moment which we wont discuss. Each time, I simply covered my weapon back up with no fanfare and didn't have police called on me.

    It is important to note that this is purely anecdotal evidence. I live in a small town, your mileage may vary. Though, I think in most cases, people either wont notice or wont be too bothered by it. If you do have to deal with police, just try to stay calm and explain that it was purely accidental. Show them your carry license and be polite.


    Do I have to announce I am carrying to the police when stopped?
    I don't know! HALP D:

    Do I always have to carry my license with me?
    You are only required to carry your license while carrying, however there is no penalty for not doing so. Still, it is highly recommended that you do. Further, you are required to present your CHL to an officer, when likewise required to present your photo ID/driver's license.

    Request for help: I'm aware that Texas is not a stop and ID state, further, unless I am mistaken, an officer may only demand ID when they make an arrest. Please correct me where I am wrong, and if you know how this also applies to CHL holders. I'd guess that you don't have to present your CHL if it is a simple stop and ID. But IDK, especially since I don't know if you have to announce that you're carrying.

    Okay, my brain is overloaded. Back to Civilization V.
    Last edited by Jack House; 08-09-2012 at 01:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Currently in the process of moving, so wont be able to do much here until after that's said and done. I'll atleast try to add the citations and links when I get a moment.

    Takes an hour or two everytime I try to update it some more. So yeah.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Currently in the process of moving, so wont be able to do much here until after that's said and done. I'll atleast try to add the citations and links when I get a moment.

    Takes an hour or two everytime I try to update it some more. So yeah.
    Come on Jack, quit being lazy and get to work.

  8. #8
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs. CO
    Posts
    924
    I am genetically predisposed with a narrow focus perspective on any task, or subject matter for discussion.

    I can't talk, and do ANYTHING ELSE, let alone dance, and chew gum at the same time. So when I approach any subject like "handgun laws in Texas" I tend to automatically search for the historical underpinnings, and then try to follow the chronological path that led to how things got us to the current status quo.

    I love to think outside the box - perhaps to a fault - because I usually forget where I left the box, but sometimes I discover hither to unnoticed nuances to the general understanding.

    For example - "Traveling" actually has been defined - at least in regards to its purest, uncontestable form( Moosani v Texas). When I pull out of my driveway in Colorado Springs and head down I-25 towards Raton Pass - I've commenced my journey ("traveling") to Arlington, Texas. This isn't an issue of course until I reach Texline upon which the very carry of a handgun instantly becomes presumptive criminal conduct UNLESS I meet certain criteria under Texas law - which I do fortunately - traveling being one of them. Now while I'm traveling in Texas that Texas Penal Code Section 46.02 simply doesn't apply to me - according to Texas law (TPC Section 46.15) I didn't say it - the Texas Legislature said so. The concept is called Texas law.

    Now am I suggesting that I just open carry all the way from Colorado Springs to Arlington, Texas ? Not at all. I am extremely judicious regarding my armed presentation - and I prefer IWB carry wherever I am. There are circumstances - predominantly in parking lots where I may feel my wife & I are better defended against criminal assault if my holstered handgun is not concealed. - Allow me to leave the "traveling" issue behind for the moment.

    Let's take a look at good old Texas Penal Code Section 46.035a. When I am carrying a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Texas Government Code I may not intentionally fail to conceal my handgun.

    When I am "traveling" my handgun carry is not under any such authority, nor am I subject to the provisions of Section 46.02. The Texas Legislature hath so said - some time ago.

    One further point worth noting is that statutes like our primary nemesis 46.035a are presumed to be constitutional both at the State, and the federal level.

    That being the case Section 46.035a must certainly refer to some facet of criminal conduct - since the Texas Legislature only has constituted power to regulate the WEARING aspect of the right to keep & bear arms of every citizen WITH A VIEW TO PREVENT CRIME - right ??? Afterall the Texas Constitution reserves to every citizen in Texas the right to keep & bear arms in defense of their person.

    Now - if all exceptions to Section 46.02 application provided in Section 46.15 other than the CHL exception do not impose a concealment requirement - so says the Texas Legislature - WHY then must a CHL carrier maintain concealment ???

    Because the "CHL" carrying authority provides exception to Section 46.02 applicability when no other 46.15 exception is available the concealment requirement applies - unless the handgun is revealed/displayed under circumstances justifying the use of deadly force. That sounds a little like " every citizen shall have the right to keep & bear arms in lawful defense of himself, or the State..." like just maybe the every citizen is at some level of statistical risk of criminal assault while away from home such as attempted murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery, and so forth.

    And is not DETERRENCE (as in - I AM ARMED) a viable method of lawfully defending one's self from criminal assault ???

    If every citizen must CONCEAL the fact that they are exercising their constitutionally reserved RTKBA in lawful defense of themselves - doesn't that pretty much limit their available options in ACTING in lawful defense against criminal assault to having to actually USE that handgun ?


    I know - I am singing to the choir on this topic. Hopefully we can all sing to the Texas Legislature next year as well.

    I appreciate your attention to my remarks. They reflect my own personal point of view - as a former Texan - who still spends a good deal of my time in Texas exercising my RTKBA in lawful defense of my wife , and myself.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 08-18-2012 at 08:10 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Tx
    Posts
    326
    "I love to think outside the box"

    What box?? LOL, just messing with you. Nice bit of logic, thanks.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    I know - I am singing to the choir on this topic. Hopefully we can all sing to the Texas Legislature next year as well.
    Our best chance would be if you can preach to the back-benchers and Amen Corner.

    "Now you done quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'!" is the problem we have always faced with the Tex Legislature, and the gatekeepers to gun issues.

  11. #11
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs. CO
    Posts
    924
    KB - Yesterday I was reading some of your comments when you engaged in a 2005/2006 discussion regarding the 46.035a/46.035h "defense" question on the TexasCHLforum. Very interesting, and enlightening discussion revolving around the need for either repealing 46.035a , or amending it to reflect some regard for the right to keep (in a holster), and actually bring arms to bear if absolutely necessary in lawful defense- otherwise known as "the gray area" . The link popped up when I Googled Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.01.

    THE QUESTION lingers - how any reasonable person can be expected to recognize an impending threat of serious bodily harm cloaked in the developing progression of suspicious, intrusive, obnoxious, rude, disrespectful, alarming, menacing, and ultimately life-threatening behavior. HOW can an intended victim be expected to conjure up precognitive abilities prior to actually being menaced, physically assaulted , raped, robbed, kidnapped, murdered thereby availing themselves of the defense provided in 46.035(h)?

    There is something BIG missing between 46.035(a), and 46.035(h). I personally suspect that BIG "something missing " is 42.01(a)(8) - Disorderly Conduct. Whereas 46.035(a) describes the offense as intentional FAILURE TO CONCEAL a handgun - 46.035( h) refers back to the offense described in (a) but without explanation substitutes the word " DISPLAYED " in place of "intentionally fails to conceal" - as though the two terms were interchangeable.

    There must be some measureable threshhold to pass in order to proceed from "intentionally fails to conceal a handgun" (in a holster), and arrive at a point where the actual DISPLAY (production, and presentation)of that same handgun is defensible under the TPC 9.01 " ...circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in using deadly force". The DISPLAY of a deadly weapon in a public place addressed in 42.01(a)(8) hinges that particular disorderly conduct offense upon the qualifying phrase "...in a manner calculated to alarm".

    When an object is DISPLAYED it is usually the result of concious intent to show, or exhibit that object " in a manner calculated to cause " others to focus their attention on that object. 100 new cars parked in a dealerships parking lot are (holstered) INVENTORY. A single new car driven up a ramp upon an elevated platform parked at the apex of the dealership's frontage is DISPLAY of inventory.

    Certainly nothing I have expressed my opinion on should be interpreted as a legal definition of concealed under Texas law. If for nothing else Texas laws are notorious for their ambiguity, and their ability to leave a person scratching their head.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 08-19-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Excellent posts, RushCreek! Thank you.

  13. #13
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs. CO
    Posts
    924
    Actually - Thank you, JackHouse. This is your thread, and I felt like I was taking the topic off the path a bit with my long-winded journey down the "yellow brick road".

    You and I just visited that other thread today concerning the "Dude" who dismissed the COP's good counsel that he might want to "cover up" , and ended up getting hog-tied for disorderly conduct at the Arby's in Kentucky. ( Hot Topics)

    This sort of behavior should concern us all. You just can't say dang the torpedos- full speed ahead without a little bit of attention being given to selecting a course, and checking out the "weather", and paying a little bit of attention to the navigation instruments - and entertaining some sensitivity, and consideration towards the concerns of others. Otherwise they will shortly express their sensitivities, and concerns through their legislative representive in the form of a new law against your behavior.

    This incident illustrates exactly WHY Texas enacted 46.035a back in 1996. I get a lot of flak from some well intentioned members who want to nail me to the side of the barn for merely suggesting that we should pay some mind to HOW WE PRESENT OURSELVES ARMED IN PUBLIC.

    I was told not too long ago that the reason I didn't have any problem OC'ing was because folks reckoned I was just some old senior citizen who couldn't possible be a threat to anyone. He was right for the most part.

    Folks that think they can just exercise their OC right - wherever they go - despite the fact that they resemble the latest mass shooter in Wisconsin - are in for trouble.

    This sort of activity is working against the effort down in Texas to get that 46.035(a) problem resolved.

    There are more than enough statutes on the books to handle any concerns expressed in 46.035(a).

    Title 5, Sec. 22.01 Assault - threatening another person with imminent seriously bodily injury.

    Title 9, Sec. 42.01 (a)(8) - Disorderly Conduct with the display of a deadly weapon in public in a manner calculated to cause alarm.

    This Kentucky example is exactly why outright repeal of 46.035(a) faces serious resistance. It might be better to consider amending the provision to create some "wiggle room" between Article 2, Section 23, 46.035 (a), and 46.035 (h) as presently worded- such as adding ..."intentionally fails to conceal in a threatening manner" for starters.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 08-20-2012 at 08:06 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    so, if i am traveling to texas for christmas, i can open carry until i reach my destination?

  15. #15
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    so, if i am traveling to texas for christmas, i can open carry until i reach my destination?
    I have no experience with the traveling exception but my personal advice would be to not rely on it. The "atmosphere" probably won't support it even if the law technically does. I'd bet not a single officer on the local PD is familiar with the exception. Hell, I'm an open carry advocate and I forgot it was there until someone pointed it out here, recently.

    Anyway, I wouldn't risk having to deal with "that" on the holidays.
    Advocate freedom please

  16. #16
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ashland, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    613
    I have read the 30.06 signage law and it appears to me that if you are carrying concealed and violate a 30.06 sign, you can be charged with Trespass but only if you do not leave when asked.

    Am I reading that correctly?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    24
    Not from my understanding. 30.06(a)(2)(A) states that you are in violation if you received notice. The sign serves as notice. 30.06(a)(2)(A) ends with "or" that refers to 30.06(a)(2)( B ). 30.06(a)(2)( B ) states you are in violation if you don't leave after notified. To me ( B ) comes in if there is no sign and you are asked to leave.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by DamnYankeeOk; 01-12-2014 at 05:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    I have read the 30.06 signage law and it appears to me that if you are carrying concealed and violate a 30.06 sign, you can be charged with Trespass but only if you do not leave when asked.

    Am I reading that correctly?
    No, here's the code:

    Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
    (1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
    (2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.


    For the purposes of a licensee carrying a concealed handgun, the notice specified in PC 30.06 constitutes notice that entry is forbidden. With no further notice required, a person would be guilty of criminal trespass for walking past a 30.06 notice.

    Also, criminal trespass while in possession of a deadly weapon jumps all the way up to a Class A misdemeanor (up to 1 year in jail, loss of CHL for 5 years).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •