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Thread: Daily Tribune - Warren, MI settles police misconduct lawsuit with open carrier

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    Daily Tribune - Warren, MI settles police misconduct lawsuit with open carrier

    Typically settlements for police abuse of open carriers ranges $10,000+. This settlement is interesting in that the settlement includes court ordered police retraining so that police officers know that they do not have the power to seize (aka detain) open carriers absent reasonable articulable suspicion that crime is afoot.

    http://www.dailytribune.com/article/...warren-settled

    SNIP

    The Warren resident who claims four of the city’s police officers violated his constitutional rights to openly carry a firearm has settled his lawsuit against the city.
    Haman, 54, sued Warren last year in U.S. District Court and initially sought a $100,000 judgment and $500,000 in punitive or exemplary damages. He recently agreed to accept $5,000. More importantly, he said, the city’s police officers will undergo training about “open carry” practices.

    . . .

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Great outcome!
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    who paid the lawyer's fees ... that is likely over 5K...

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    who paid the lawyer's fees ... that is likely over 5K...
    OCers donated for lawyers fees.The one fact they got wrong was that I "provided a purchase reciept and concealed weapon permit'. I submitted a correction to them,stating that "my wallet was taken from my pocket,while cuffed,a 4th amendment violation,which was part of the suit"!Hopefully they make the correction to the article!CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    who paid the lawyer's fees ... that is likely over 5K...
    Lawyers fees- $2500 OCer donations,NRA $2000,Pro-bono $2500=$7000.Others will investigate fees for Warren lawyers(tax money).CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Norb Franz will correct the statement that I "gave them a purchase reciept and concealed weapons permit"! I explained that they "took my wallet from my pocket while I was cuffed,a 4th amendment violation,and they never asked for my ID,which is in the video-audio!CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Its good to know that OCDO has another 5 grand in the war chest for the next battle.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Lawyers fees- $2500 OCer donations,NRA $2000,Pro-bono $2500=$7000.Others will investigate fees for Warren lawyers(tax money).CARRY ON!
    I did not realize NRA provided $2000. I thought NRA does not want to touch OC issues with a 12 feet pole. I need to reconsider my recent skepticism about NRA.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    I did not realize NRA provided $2000. I thought NRA does not want to touch OC issues with a 12 feet pole. I need to reconsider my recent skepticism about NRA.
    I also must reconsider my opinion of the NRA in reference to open carry especially since the phone conversation I had with an NRA rep concerning open carry quickly devolved into him making it clear that the NRA had a very dim view of open carry advocates. Perhaps I just happened to be talking to a person who gave me his personal views about open carry instead of the official views of the NRA.

    It was quite a conversation (sadly I don't remember the guy's name now).... a conversation that changed my perspective of the NRA and that damage may not be able to be repaired. But knowing the NRA kicked in $2000 to support hamaneggs is a step in the right direction.

    Yeah, I know... I'm just one guy and the NRA isn't going to care....

    but I do.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 08-05-2012 at 05:11 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Lawyers fees- $2500 OCer donations,NRA $2000,Pro-bono $2500=$7000.Others will investigate fees for Warren lawyers(tax money).CARRY ON!
    Hey! how long were you going to hold out on this information?
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    I wonder if OCDO is going to kick any of that 5 grand towards the CADL case? That ruling is going to make or break OC in MI.....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    I wonder if OCDO is going to kick any of that 5 grand towards the CADL case? That ruling is going to make or break OC in MI.....
    OCDO didn't get the money. The person who's rights were violated received the funds. I personally donated $100 of the $2,500 IIRC but I will surely not tell him how he should spend it. I do believe he already posted in the CADL vs MOC thread agreeing to donate what he could afford if an appeal is needed, before that thread turned into a stainless bashing thread.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Seven grand to win five, with no legal ramifications beyond some local burg, and little to nothing to show for the wider movement.

    I already suspected that was the case; I just wanted it out in the open for anyone who might contribute to the next case to think about....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Seven grand to win five, with no legal ramifications beyond some local burg, and little to nothing to show for the wider movement.

    I already suspected that was the case; I just wanted it out in the open for anyone who might contribute to the next case to think about....
    A general observation. One brick at a time builds a wall.... complaining about the cost of bricks means the wall never gets built.

    And.... the anti's depend on the fact that the "little people" have to pay out of their own pockets while the government takes the endless tax money it took from the "little people" to use against the "little people".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Not to be an ass, but... NRA refuses to help CADL-MOC OC case with statewide implications, BUT NRA donates $2000 to one guy for a civil suit. Biggest difference? AFAIK, Steve Dulan(Jeff's lawyer) is the NRA-ILA Michigan representative...hmmmm.
    Last edited by scot623; 08-06-2012 at 11:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Seven grand to win five, with no legal ramifications beyond some local burg, and little to nothing to show for the wider movement.

    I already suspected that was the case; I just wanted it out in the open for anyone who might contribute to the next case to think about....
    Well, it would cost about 20-40K to take the case to trial. And the plaintiff likely is still going to cough up this money ... with a possible return of ??? (20K is a good estimate) if it went forward.

    That's why people should learn to file pro se ... this case was a simple case to bring forward pro se.
    I would have gone pro se; but that's me ... I know how to file and get'er done. This plaintiff may not. And even if I lose, I know that they, though the process, would have to spend 70K to my five hundred bucks. I'm sure that testilying would be the main defense.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, it would cost about 20-40K to take the case to trial. And the plaintiff likely is still going to cough up this money ... with a possible return of ??? (20K is a good estimate) if it went forward.

    That's why people should learn to file pro se ... this case was a simple case to bring forward pro se.
    I would have gone pro se; but that's me ... I know how to file and get'er done. This plaintiff may not. And even if I lose, I know that they, though the process, would have to spend 70K to my five hundred bucks. I'm sure that testilying would be the main defense.
    Hey David - maybe you could start a thread telling ocers how to file pro se? We would be grateful for the help. Thug cops try to bankrupt law abiding citizens who do not tow their line is what these arrests boil down to. If someone breaks the law do your job, if someone does something LEGAL you do not like leave them alone. Pretty simple one would think

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Seven grand to win five, with no legal ramifications beyond some local burg, and little to nothing to show for the wider movement.

    I already suspected that was the case; I just wanted it out in the open for anyone who might contribute to the next case to think about....
    It was the same way with me. All the lawyers that I spoke with told me that I did have a legitimate case, but they wouldnt take it because the cost would be more than the payout. This case proves that. If I had the money to cover the lawyers fees, I would have taken the loss myself.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-06-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601
    I did not realize NRA provided $2000. I thought NRA does not want to touch OC issues with a 12 feet pole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle
    Hey! how long were you going to hold out on this information?
    The NRA has helped other OCers who have been wrongfully arrested, charged, tried.
    In some cases, one condition of accepting the money has been that the "right of disclosure" (for lack of a better term) about that involvement belongs to the NRA, not to the victim or attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    Well, it would cost about 20-40K to take the case to trial. And the plaintiff likely is still going to cough up this money ... with a possible return of ??? (20K is a good estimate) if it went forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911
    All the lawyers that I spoke with told me that I did have a legitimate case, but they wouldnt take it because the cost would be more than the payout.
    In a civil case, the losing party pays the expenses of the winning party.
    Anyone remember seeing the check with a whole bunch of 0's written to (IIRC) SAF after one of the recent Supreme Court decisions went against Chicago or DC or whatever rights-infringing city it was?
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Seven grand to win five, with no legal ramifications beyond some local burg, and little to nothing to show for the wider movement.

    I already suspected that was the case; I just wanted it out in the open for anyone who might contribute to the next case to think about....
    thinking about .....
    My donation helped the wider movement in showing Warren PD, their boot thug lawless tactics against law abiding Open Carry must end. And the little donation, made me feel good.

    Any time someone is abused with criminal law enforcement, I will donate.
    Last edited by Gort; 08-06-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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