Of course not all LEOs are bad, the problem being is how do you tell the bad ones from the good ones during a stop???? How do you know if that LEO is out to get you or not until its too late???? The way I look at it is even if only 10% of LEOs are bad eggs I have a greater than 1 in ten chance of running into a jerk that could make my life tough for simply exercising my state and federal constitutional rights. I am sorry but I do not like those odds not to mention I believe the bad LEO percentage is more like 20 to 30%.
All I am asking is for the LEO to follow the law(s) after all that is what LEOs are demanding of me. Whats wrong with demanding LEOs follow the letter of the law??? No one has to be rude including the LEO and I am not suggesting rudeness be employed by anyone.
It is also obvious that you have not been on the receiving end of a bad LEO encounter that will do more than anything else to change your attitude about how you are willing to interact with LE.
You will never know if any LEO (unless you actually know him/her) is good or bad. However, if one wants to be an ass, then they are well with in the rights to do so. It is really simple, if you are OCing at a bus stop and you are about to board a bus, the LEO can ask if it is loaded and if you have a CPL. If you refuse goto show your CPL, YOU will goto jail. When you goto court and tell the Judge that your rights were violated cause YOU refused to show your CPL, he will have no mercy on you.
Any LEO can walk up to you in public and ask a question, just like any other person can. Some of you talk about rights and never speak to police. The funny part, you already have spoken to police and gave up your rights on the forums. So if you are stuck on "do not talk to a LEO" maybe you should quit posting.
DISCLAIMER: This is not a personal attack on anyone!
Now mainly my whole point on all of this is...... Educate the uneducated.
So if you feel that it is not with-in the LEOs rights to ask you for your CPL, then perhaps you should educate that LEO.
This scenerio is fictional:
LEO: Excuse me sir/ma'am! I see you are standing at this bus stop.
Loaded OC Citizen: Yes sir/ma'am.
LEO: Are you waiting for the bus?
Loaded OC Citizen: I am
LEO: Is your pistol loaded?
Now this is where you have two choices. One, do not say a word, or two, you can say yes. Lets play out scenerio one.
Loaded OC Citizen: I refuse to answer anymore questions.
LEO: Ok no problem but I will have to ask you to please keep your hands where I can see them at all times!
Loaded OC Citizen: Am I being detained?
LEO: Yes, you may want to call your lawyer if you have one.
Loaded OC Citizen: I have done nothing wrong, why am I being detained?
LEO: I asked a simple question, you do not want to answer, that is fine. For my safety, please turn around and place your hands on your head.
Loaded OC Citizen: I have done nothing wrong?
LEO: I understand, now please turn around and put your hands on your head. For officers safety, I am going to handcuff you and remove your weapon from your hoslster.
Now at this point in time, you have no choice but to do as the LEO asks. You have missed the bus and will not make it to your destination.
Back up arrives, and if you have a lawyer, I am sure he will be waiting for you at the jail. Is the LEO right? Yes. Also even wrong too. However, it is not up to you ar the LEO to decide that. You have been detained because you did not answer a simple question. The LEO does not know who you are , nor what your intentions are. He has one duty, to enforce the law. Since it is illegal to carry a loaded pistol while OCing on a bus without a CPL he is only trying to enforce the law. However, it is not up to you to argue with that LEO, doing so will only get you in more hot water. Simply refuse to answer and call your Lawyer. You will have a court date and you will be able to plee your case in front of the Judge. Nothing wrong with fighting for your rights, just make sure you are with-in the law when you do it. So if you decide to go with the " I refuse to asnswer your questions". You may be detained and after it is all done, only the Judge will have the final say and you will still have to prove you have a CPL, and not only that, but now show your ID and sign crap, and deal with the exspenses.
Scenerio number two
LEO: Excuse me sir/ma'am! I see you are standing at this bus stop.
Loaded OC Citizen: Yes sir/ma'am.
LEO: Are you waiting for the bus?
Loaded OC Citizen: I am
LEO: Is your pistol loaded?
Loaded OC Citizen: Yes it is.
LEO: you said you are waiting for the bus, you plan on getting on the bus?
Loaded OC Citizen: yes
LEO: do you have a CPL?
Loaded OC Citizen: Yes
LEO: Can I see your CPL?
Loaded OC Citizen: Sure. (hands the LEO the CPL)
This is where is should end. If the LEO asks anymore questions, this is where you have the right to not say a damn thing. OR, you can engage in a friendly conversation and bulid relations with the LEO. However, you must stay alert and make sure the LEO is not fishing.
I know some will disagree with both scenerios, but I have seen it, I have heard it. I have talked to friends that are a LEO as well as people who work for L.E.S.A. (Law Enforcment Support Agency). You can be contacted and you nay be asked. It is up to YOU and ONLY YOU as to where you want to take it. Everyone reading this has the right to choose what direction to take. Sure everybody wants advise, but it is up to the individual to react. Everyone has an opinion as to what may or may not happen. We can all cite past cases, but sometimes, it is better to just follow the law, cause it is illegal to OC a loaded pistol in a vehicle without a CPL unless you are excempt.
John Doe walks from a bar to his car and drives away. Can a LEO just pull the car over? No!, but that LEO can follow that car and as soon as the person driving breaks any kind of traffic law, that LEO can now pull him over. This really has no comparison to a loaded pistol and OCing in a vehicle.
Rosa Parks- not the same as OCing a loaded pistol in a vehicle. Unless you want to boycott OCing loaded in a vehicle without a CPL. She stood up for her civil rights as a Afican American. What she did changed the course of history for all women of color. Now if you want to leave your CPL at home and start the boycott, I will read about you in the paper.
Every law abiding citizen has rights, and it is up to you to exercise them. Now if we could get everyone on the same page, then sure, lets get all Washington Residents together and lets go make a stand, but if that is something you do not want to lead, then quit citing and start doing.