Citizen
Founder's Club Member
SNIP Washington Cease Fire has a facebook page that needs a little molesting.
LOL!! Something about that choice of words cracks me up.
SNIP Washington Cease Fire has a facebook page that needs a little molesting.
Ouch, you got me... I think I'll just stop posting here from now on.
As everyone can see by my post count and the date I joined, I'm clearly not trying to run up my post count. And thanks for the personal attack.
I see these threads on Mall Carry, know what direction they're going to take, yet I read them anyway.
Maybe there ought to be a Sticky regarding Malls and how they're private property. What's so hard to figure out there?
Personally, I avoid malls as much as possible. If I'm not getting robbed inside (usually legally by a merchant and the State through the Sales Tax), then my vehicle is at risk in their parking lot. I'd rather do my shopping online.
You were on private property. And asked to leave... Leave.
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I see these threads on Mall Carry, know what direction they're going to take, yet I read them anyway.
Maybe there ought to be a Sticky regarding Malls and how they're private property. What's so hard to figure out there?
You were the one that brought up post count, not me. You made a personal attack against me. I didn't do that to you.
To clarify, there was no argument, I was simply seeking some clarification on internal policies and for some direction in case I had somehow missed a clearly visible request to not bring firearms into their establishment. Consider this: If rules aren't questioned, how will people ever understand them, or in the event of complete understanding, how will they ever change them..? I had no intention of being difficult or otherwise, I was simply trying to understand the logic behind why "no smoking within 25 feet of doors" signs are more important than a formal request for patrons to not bring firearms into their establishment. The gap between the legal repercussions of the two situations, worst case scenario, is vast, to say the least.
Agreed, so far, I haven't been asked to leave the South Hill mall. I was there for an hour or two with no problems. My kids played in the kids area as I watched as well.Please no more signs! Do not ever be afraid to open carry anywhere you go. Simply put, if asked to leave, just let them know you will take your money elswhere and leave. If they approach you and ask why are you carrying your pistol out in the open, educate them, just make sure you are educated as well. If it is private property and they ask you to conceal or leave, you take what ever action you desire. Some places are just not educated with gun laws and some just do not like guns. Keep OCing and try to avoid the places you can't OC.
With that, I OC'ed in Dicks Sporting Goods in the South Hill Mall and was never asked about my weapon. I also OC'ed in the Mall with a Drop Leg Holster and never had any issues. All in all I try to avoid the mall. Nothing in the mall that I really need. I only go when the women asks me to come along.
This is an excellent point, however it raises more questions regarding the official capacities the security guards are acting in and whether something like that would be admissible in your typical court hearing scenario. Police officers can be recorded legally, without their consent here, yes (while performing duties relevant to their position of course), but private security guards on private property? I don't have any concrete answers on that either.
I feel I should also mention the concept of reaching for a voice or video recorder at my first interaction with security, law enforcement or otherwise has yet to become an integral part of my OC routine. I've never felt threatened by a police officer, security guard, etc, so I have a hard time associating them mentally with anything negative and remembering to reach into my pocket and break out a camera or voice recorder at the first sign of trouble.
Hypothetically speaking, say I was detained on some bs accusation like you'd initially stated where they could've lied, etc. What then? Who is to say my handy dandy voice recorder would've even retained it's microsd card after I'd been detained..?
IT has everything to do with a reasonable expectation of privacy.
I used to be friends with a PI. He would record all the time in bars malls and other places. You never have to tell them either.
The reason they post the no smoking signs is because it's law. They have to. No firearms in the mall is just their private rule. If they post a sign in a conspicuous place they just might lose the business of some CCers. That certainly wouldn't be beneficial to them. They really are just looking for the ILLUSION of safety. If they cant see the guns then that's fine with them and their insurance carrier.
Cite, please.
Cite to the contrary or look up my old posts where I have cited in the past.
The case is Flora
I used to be friends with a PI. He would record all the time in bars malls and other places. You never have to tell them either.
In Washington, you can satisfy the consent requirement by "announc[ing] to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted," so long as this announcement is also recorded.
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
Flora only applies to public employees whereas the discussion occurs during their official duties.
You stated earlier:
Your statement does not specify public officials. If you are suggesting you can record private citizens without their knowledge you would be incorrect. Washington is a two party notify state. It is incumbent upon you to cite your statement not that of others.
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law
New guys....read the rules of the forum here....it makes us all better and makes this forum a powerful tool.