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tacoma mall incident, first post, etc, could use some advice.

07Altima

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Monroe
Been there several times

I have both CC'd and OC'd there, and even OC past several security guards, and never been asked to leave, I have also done this at the Everett Mall, with out issue. I do have to say I am not an intimidating persona in any way. I think if anything I come across as passive. I think sometimes to though that wearing my veterans hat helps, and even more so when I am with my kids however the times I have been at the mall have not been with my kids. I still do not understand why I am not a target since my Firearm is very large, hard to miss, and well you be the judge I carry a Raging Judge, on my hip still very little in way of any negative. the worst I have had was a few dirty looks at Freddy's from other customers.
 

BobR

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
391
Location
West Plains, ,
Ouch, you got me... I think I'll just stop posting here from now on.

As everyone can see by my post count and the date I joined, I'm clearly not trying to run up my post count. And thanks for the personal attack.

Compared to me, you *could* be classified as a post <lady of the night> ;)

I keep my post count down by ot getting involved in threads like this one, but you made me post anyhow. :)

bob
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
What's wrong with me?

I see these threads on Mall Carry, know what direction they're going to take, yet I read them anyway.

Maybe there ought to be a Sticky regarding Malls and how they're private property. What's so hard to figure out there?


Personally, I avoid malls as much as possible. If I'm not getting robbed inside (usually legally by a merchant and the State through the Sales Tax), then my vehicle is at risk in their parking lot. I'd rather do my shopping online.
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
I see these threads on Mall Carry, know what direction they're going to take, yet I read them anyway.

Maybe there ought to be a Sticky regarding Malls and how they're private property. What's so hard to figure out there?


Personally, I avoid malls as much as possible. If I'm not getting robbed inside (usually legally by a merchant and the State through the Sales Tax), then my vehicle is at risk in their parking lot. I'd rather do my shopping online.

+1.

Last Christmas we did all of our shopping on line neither of us set foot in a store, it was fabulous. No more crowded stores no more looking for a parking spot, no more rude people, no hassles about my OC and no sales tax in most cases. And with Amazon Prime we did not pay for most of the shipping.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
You were on private property. And asked to leave... Leave.
.

Yes, you should call the businesses there and tell them that you will not be spending your money due to that lack of your sidearm, that you think you need (and it does not matter what others think), being allowed into the bldg.

Looks like the 15yr old kid was right though...why you bad mouthed him is a mystery.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I see these threads on Mall Carry, know what direction they're going to take, yet I read them anyway.

Maybe there ought to be a Sticky regarding Malls and how they're private property. What's so hard to figure out there?


New folks caught off guard. We gotta try to remember that because we know lots does not mean the new guys know everything we know. Thus the steady diet of mall threads, threads where somebody got cop-stopped but didn't have his voice-recorder, can the cop run my serial number threads, etc., etc. New guys learning their stuff.
 

DeltaOps

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
101
Location
Bonney Lake
Please no more signs! Do not ever be afraid to open carry anywhere you go. Simply put, if asked to leave, just let them know you will take your money elswhere and leave. If they approach you and ask why are you carrying your pistol out in the open, educate them, just make sure you are educated as well. If it is private property and they ask you to conceal or leave, you take what ever action you desire. Some places are just not educated with gun laws and some just do not like guns. Keep OCing and try to avoid the places you can't OC.

With that, I OC'ed in Dicks Sporting Goods in the South Hill Mall and was never asked about my weapon. I also OC'ed in the Mall with a Drop Leg Holster and never had any issues. All in all I try to avoid the mall. Nothing in the mall that I really need. I only go when the women asks me to come along.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
To clarify, there was no argument, I was simply seeking some clarification on internal policies and for some direction in case I had somehow missed a clearly visible request to not bring firearms into their establishment. Consider this: If rules aren't questioned, how will people ever understand them, or in the event of complete understanding, how will they ever change them..? I had no intention of being difficult or otherwise, I was simply trying to understand the logic behind why "no smoking within 25 feet of doors" signs are more important than a formal request for patrons to not bring firearms into their establishment. The gap between the legal repercussions of the two situations, worst case scenario, is vast, to say the least.

The reason they post the no smoking signs is because it's law. They have to. No firearms in the mall is just their private rule. If they post a sign in a conspicuous place they just might lose the business of some CCers. That certainly wouldn't be beneficial to them. They really are just looking for the ILLUSION of safety. If they cant see the guns then that's fine with them and their insurance carrier.
 

DCKilla

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
523
Location
Wet Side, WA
Please no more signs! Do not ever be afraid to open carry anywhere you go. Simply put, if asked to leave, just let them know you will take your money elswhere and leave. If they approach you and ask why are you carrying your pistol out in the open, educate them, just make sure you are educated as well. If it is private property and they ask you to conceal or leave, you take what ever action you desire. Some places are just not educated with gun laws and some just do not like guns. Keep OCing and try to avoid the places you can't OC.

With that, I OC'ed in Dicks Sporting Goods in the South Hill Mall and was never asked about my weapon. I also OC'ed in the Mall with a Drop Leg Holster and never had any issues. All in all I try to avoid the mall. Nothing in the mall that I really need. I only go when the women asks me to come along.
Agreed, so far, I haven't been asked to leave the South Hill mall. I was there for an hour or two with no problems. My kids played in the kids area as I watched as well.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
This is an excellent point, however it raises more questions regarding the official capacities the security guards are acting in and whether something like that would be admissible in your typical court hearing scenario. Police officers can be recorded legally, without their consent here, yes (while performing duties relevant to their position of course), but private security guards on private property? I don't have any concrete answers on that either.

I feel I should also mention the concept of reaching for a voice or video recorder at my first interaction with security, law enforcement or otherwise has yet to become an integral part of my OC routine. I've never felt threatened by a police officer, security guard, etc, so I have a hard time associating them mentally with anything negative and remembering to reach into my pocket and break out a camera or voice recorder at the first sign of trouble.

Hypothetically speaking, say I was detained on some bs accusation like you'd initially stated where they could've lied, etc. What then? Who is to say my handy dandy voice recorder would've even retained it's microsd card after I'd been detained..?

IT has everything to do with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

I used to be friends with a PI. He would record all the time in bars malls and other places. You never have to tell them either.
 

SIGGER40

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
7
Location
Gig Harbor,WA.
Tacoma mall

Just conceal and go about your business. There was mention of a shooting at Tacoma mall a few years ago.
I was there Standing next to Dominic Mauldinado when he chose to sound off with an Ak 47. At that time I was a new resident to Washington State. I have owned firearms since I was old enough to purchase them. I never saw the need to carry until that day. I didn't like the feeling that he could shoot my kids wife and me, and there was nothing I could do. Circumstances are different today I try to be prepared. I was held in the vans store for. 4 hours at someone's else's mercy and that sucks.

I guess my point is if you are going to carry there conceal it and go one about you business. If you have never been in that situation it happens very fast and I do wonder if I was open carrying would I or my family have been targeted.


UPDATE: Dominic tried to escape a couple years ago by taking a DOC Officer hostage. It failed and his accomplice was shot.
 

Rob G

Regular Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Tacoma
The reason they post the no smoking signs is because it's law. They have to. No firearms in the mall is just their private rule. If they post a sign in a conspicuous place they just might lose the business of some CCers. That certainly wouldn't be beneficial to them. They really are just looking for the ILLUSION of safety. If they cant see the guns then that's fine with them and their insurance carrier.

Hi Stalfos

I also live here in Tacoma. Another place that doesn't allow openly carried firearms but doesn't post any signage is Costco. I learned that from reading the forums here and I'm still learning.

I hope this helps some.
 
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gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Cite to the contrary or look up my old posts where I have cited in the past.

The case is Flora

Flora only applies to public employees whereas the discussion occurs during their official duties.

You stated earlier:
I used to be friends with a PI. He would record all the time in bars malls and other places. You never have to tell them either.

Your statement does not specify public officials. If you are suggesting you can record private citizens without their knowledge you would be incorrect. Washington is a two party notify state. It is incumbent upon you to cite your statement not that of others.

In Washington, you can satisfy the consent requirement by "announc[ing] to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted," so long as this announcement is also recorded.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law


(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

New guys....read the rules of the forum here....it makes us all better and makes this forum a powerful tool.
 
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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Flora only applies to public employees whereas the discussion occurs during their official duties.

You stated earlier:

Your statement does not specify public officials. If you are suggesting you can record private citizens without their knowledge you would be incorrect. Washington is a two party notify state. It is incumbent upon you to cite your statement not that of others.



http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law




New guys....read the rules of the forum here....it makes us all better and makes this forum a powerful tool.


If it's not made illegal then it is legal.

It is incumbent upon you to show that it's not.

The consent has to do with phones.... The courts have ruled that if it's conversation on a cell phone, that it's free and clear for anyone to record the calls.

Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.

Key word there is PRIVATE!
 
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