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Thread: I was dumb when I was young but now I wanna fix it.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    I was dumb when I was young but now I wanna fix it.

    Ok so here's the deal... when I was under the age of 18, I did alot of stupid things... shoplifting, stealing, traspassing... somewhere along the line, I managed to commit a single nonvilolent felony. I'm now 34, have had no problems what so ever since I was 16. Now I want to get my first gun but that felony is the only thing holding me back. After doing a whole bunch of research, I know what the requirements are for restoring my rights in washington state... the problem is, I have been getting conflicting information from court officials and lawyers alike... I don't have the money to hire a lawyer but I would really appreciate it if there was somebody that has experience with this sort of situation and can share what they have experienced or if there was a lawyer that could give reliable info.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    If you ate planning on spending money on an firearm then I suggest you save for a while and spend it on an attorney first.

    If you are not patient enough for that approach then I wish you the best.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Were you tried as an adult? I thought juvenile records were sealed once one reached the age of 18? If that is the case then while would a felony conviction as a minor make a difference?

    +1 on the attorney
    Last edited by thebigsd; 08-05-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    You will likely need a lawyer to write up your request and to ensure it is submitted properly.

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    I'm going to go a different route than the others in this thread. I was in you exact situation just a few months ago and got my rights restored without so much as a phone call to an attorney. What county do you live in, if it's Spokane I can give you every single detail you need. If not I can still give you some good information. The total cost to get mine taken care of was around $300. Most of that was filing the petition for restoration of gun rights, then some for certified copies, background check, and that might have included my CPL cost too. Let me know what county and I can help you out.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    My entire juvenile criminal record is contained in Kitsap county. I however live in Pierce county. Kitsap county says I need to pay a $240 filing fee in order to process my patition to restore my firearms rights due to the felony. It will cost me another $52.50 to apply for my consealed weapon permit. These are the definite costs that I know about. This does not include travel costs since I have to travel from Pierce to Kitsap county without a car of my own... I must take public transportation. The court clerk at the Kitsap county superior court said that all I needed was a printout from the washington state patrol WATCH website background check thing which cost me $10.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    If you know it will cost $240 for the form to file, get an appointment with a lawyer and negotiate a flat fee, that way you get help filing it right and generally can have a lawyer do the required court appearances. I had to file a petition in court for an issue and it was way easier to meet a lawyer at a convenient time than meet court schedules since it ended up being multiple dates. Especially if you are in a different county than your issue.

  8. #8
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    I just had a good friend and a board member get their rights restored a few months ago. Neither used a lawyer and their felony's were non-violent and didn't include a gun. Here is just a bit of information I know you need. A copy of your conviction. Petition filed showing the conviction and a back ground check verifying it was the last one. You get an appointment and show up. In their cases, it was all Pierce County. Try calling the county clerk and asking for a little advise. They will usually point you in the right direction.

    With that being said, I had a soldier get convicted of Grand larceny. Him and another soldier took a running Cab-Ulance for a joy ride one night. Arrested, convicted, thrown out of the Army too. He had a lawyer do all the filing for him and had his rights restored in a matter of one month. It had been 10 years since his conviction. It cost him $1K+. If he was here he could have did it all himself.
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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you did, but it must have been a real doozy. I was living in Kitsap County when my brother and I done soem real crazy crap. It involved a BB gun and lots of moving vehicles. Yes we got caught, we did not goto juvie but we did have to do 80 hours of comunity service. We were tolsd that once we turned 18, our records would be destroyed and as far as I know, they were. I joined the military at age 17, the criminal check came back negative. I have held several different security clearances from secret, top secret, classified and so on. However, if it came down to it and it was not clear. I would do what I could to make sure my records were clear. We all make mistakes, we just need to fix it and move on. Having your rights taken from you cause of a mistake you made sucks bad, but to be able to get them back, wel you can't put a price on that.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    many have come here asking this question.
    lots of guys had troubles as minors.
    felons cant own a gun, and they cant vote.

    do you,,, can you vote?

    if you can vote,,, you probably are NOT a felon...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  11. #11
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    many have come here asking this question.
    lots of guys had troubles as minors.
    felons cant own a gun, and they cant vote.

    do you,,, can you vote?

    if you can vote,,, you probably are NOT a felon...
    I'm not totally sure but I got a hunch it's a lot easier to get one's voting rights restored than gun rights.

    In the end, it's going to be whatever is in the records accessed by NICS for firearm purchases. He may have the "rights" but if their records show a felony that can queer a purchase.

    Yes, one can do it themselves but an attorney may well be worth the expense.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I'm not totally sure but I got a hunch it's a lot easier to get one's voting rights restored than gun rights.

    In the end, it's going to be whatever is in the records accessed by NICS for firearm purchases. He may have the "rights" but if their records show a felony that can queer a purchase.

    Yes, one can do it themselves but an attorney may well be worth the expense.
    Felons do vote, I have seen known felons in line at poll stations when I voted. I have had more than a few acquaintances that were felons that said they vote. I guess since they are felons they don't care if they get caught. Besides getting gun rights back, OP should consider getting the records expunged.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    My entire juvenile criminal record is contained in Kitsap county. I however live in Pierce county. Kitsap county says I need to pay a $240 filing fee in order to process my patition to restore my firearms rights due to the felony. It will cost me another $52.50 to apply for my consealed weapon permit. These are the definite costs that I know about. This does not include travel costs since I have to travel from Pierce to Kitsap county without a car of my own... I must take public transportation. The court clerk at the Kitsap county superior court said that all I needed was a printout from the washington state patrol WATCH website background check thing which cost me $10.
    Spend the $240 first. If you are still disqualified to possess a firearm when you apply for the concealed pistol permit (Washington does not issue concealed weapon licenses) then your $52.50 will be wasted and your application will be denied.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd
    Were you tried as an adult? I thought juvenile records were sealed once one reached the age of 18? If that is the case then while would a felony conviction as a minor make a difference?
    Look at question 11 c on the 4473
    Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?
    It doesn't limit itself to crimes committed as an adult.
    The instructions say that if the person has been pardoned, or the conviction expunged or set aside, or their civil rights restored, they're not prohibited.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    I am not sure what you did, but it must have been a real doozy. I was living in Kitsap County when my brother and I done soem real crazy crap. It involved a BB gun and lots of moving vehicles. Yes we got caught, we did not goto juvie but we did have to do 80 hours of comunity service. We were tolsd that once we turned 18, our records would be destroyed and as far as I know, they were. I joined the military at age 17, the criminal check came back negative. I have held several different security clearances from secret, top secret, classified and so on. However, if it came down to it and it was not clear. I would do what I could to make sure my records were clear. We all make mistakes, we just need to fix it and move on. Having your rights taken from you cause of a mistake you made sucks bad, but to be able to get them back, wel you can't put a price on that.
    The records are not destroyed at 18. Records can be sealed or expunged, but they will exist forever. Depending upon whether they are sealed or not depends upon who can view them at a later time and under what circumstances. A judge will be able to see them, and depending on the circumstances a prosecutor may be able to see them as well.

    As far as security clearances go, just because you shot a BB gun at cars does not mean you will not receive the highest clearance. What you describe is not a trust issue. Crimes related to trust issues will have a greater impact upon security clearances than other more minor issues.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    many have come here asking this question.
    lots of guys had troubles as minors.
    felons cant own a gun, and they cant vote.

    do you,,, can you vote?

    if you can vote,,, you probably are NOT a felon...

    I can vote. Washington law I believe it is, states that a felon cannot vote during the time they are imprisoned *and* on probation/parol(sp). but once their time is served, they get those rights restored automatically. As for my gun rights, those were automatically taken away at the time of the conviction/ajudication. The washington state consealed weapons license application specifically asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony as an adult or juvenile and washington state law says you cannon own any firearm with those same requirements.

    As for getting my records expunged, I plan to do that and it will only cost me $75 but I have to get my rights restored first because if I don't, the process of getting my rights restored will undo the process of sealing my records -_- which is just mind boggling...

    Now for the kicker which is nice for me... once I have my court hearing and I get my rights restored, I can then take a certified copy of the judgement to the LESA with my application for a consealed weapons permit and even if they do still come back with something that says I can't have it, the judgement will nullify it

    Difdi: "(Washington does not issue concealed weapon licenses)" http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firea...oncealreq.html <~ please rethink that statement lol (ha! reread that and understood your meaning... in my mind, CPL, CWP, and all the other things like that all mean the same thing...)
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 08-06-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Double check with Pierce County that you can't file for restoration there if that's where you currently live. We have people all the time who live in Spokane now but their conviction was in another county or state. We also have people who file their own petitions all the time without hiring an attorney. Not to take bread off the table of my brothers and sisters at the bar but this is one situation where you really can do it yourself.

    The Spokane County Superior Court website has all the forms you need here: http://www.spokanecounty.org/superio...nt.aspx?c=1105. They are downloadable in Word format so all you need to do is change the name of the County to Pierce or Kitsap in the heading. Check the Pierce or Kitsap Superior Court websites as they may have their own forms.

    You can set up your own hearing date (Note For Hearing Form should be available on-line) and you can find out what day(s) motions are set from the court's websites. In Spokane these are heard on Friday mornings but each county is different. Just be sure to give whichever prosecutor's office plenty of notice. There's a minimum amount of time required under the local rules - - give them more. Also, check with them a couple of days before your hearing date. If all i's are crossed and t's dotted they may sign off on an agreed order (we do all the time here in Spokane).
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    Yes listen to that man .^ Lammo is the one that pointed me in the right direction. And you can seal your records first. That's what I did and when I talked to the prosecutor he said he wouldn't bother unsealing them for the restoration process. I would talk to the prosecutors office in the county you are planning to do it in.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Update...

    Thank you Lammo for your help. After doing some further research in attempting to restore my rights... I started to fill out the paperwork to petition the courts to restore my rights on RCW 9.41.040. I needed a certified copy of my complete criminal record from the Washington State Patrol. Called them up this morning and the lady I talked to told me flat out that they have no record at all of my past. I explained to the helpful lady what I was doing and she kindly informed me that I had no need to waste my time or money with that method of restoring my rights. It seems that under RCW 13.50.050 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=13.50.050 I simply need to have my records sealed and that will make it as if nothing ever happened. And as proof I found this to even back it up. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-court-...s/1182711.html

    I welcome anybody to review these facts and share their opinons. This seams fairly clear cut at this point.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Thank you Lammo for your help. After doing some further research in attempting to restore my rights... I started to fill out the paperwork to petition the courts to restore my rights on RCW 9.41.040. I needed a certified copy of my complete criminal record from the Washington State Patrol. Called them up this morning and the lady I talked to told me flat out that they have no record at all of my past. I explained to the helpful lady what I was doing and she kindly informed me that I had no need to waste my time or money with that method of restoring my rights. It seems that under RCW 13.50.050 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=13.50.050 I simply need to have my records sealed and that will make it as if nothing ever happened. And as proof I found this to even back it up. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-court-...s/1182711.html

    I welcome anybody to review these facts and share their opinons. This seams fairly clear cut at this point.
    Opinion: spend $500 +- and hire a lawyer to take care of this for you (one who is familiar with this sort of issue).

  21. #21
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    Double check with Pierce County that you can't file for restoration there if that's where you currently live. We have people all the time who live in Spokane now but their conviction was in another county or state. We also have people who file their own petitions all the time without hiring an attorney. Not to take bread off the table of my brothers and sisters at the bar but this is one situation where you really can do it yourself.

    The Spokane County Superior Court website has all the forms you need here: http://www.spokanecounty.org/superio...nt.aspx?c=1105. They are downloadable in Word format so all you need to do is change the name of the County to Pierce or Kitsap in the heading. Check the Pierce or Kitsap Superior Court websites as they may have their own forms.

    You can set up your own hearing date (Note For Hearing Form should be available on-line) and you can find out what day(s) motions are set from the court's websites. In Spokane these are heard on Friday mornings but each county is different. Just be sure to give whichever prosecutor's office plenty of notice. There's a minimum amount of time required under the local rules - - give them more. Also, check with them a couple of days before your hearing date. If all i's are crossed and t's dotted they may sign off on an agreed order (we do all the time here in Spokane).
    Not to beat a dead horse, but this site seems to answer a number of questions....does he make it a bigger issue than we think?

    http://www.washrecord.com/faqFA.htm
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Difdi: "(Washington does not issue concealed weapon licenses)" http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firea...oncealreq.html <~ please rethink that statement lol (ha! reread that and understood your meaning... in my mind, CPL, CWP, and all the other things like that all mean the same thing...)
    Older concealed licenses used to say Concealed Weapon. This was changed (I don't know exactly when) to close a loophole that was allowing people to carry sword canes, among other things. The new concealed permits are just for pistols. Whether this is constitutional or not is arguable, since the Washington state constitution is more strongly worded than the 2nd amendment, and the state constitution does not specify firearms.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Opinion: spend $500 +- and hire a lawyer to take care of this for you (one who is familiar with this sort of issue).
    #1 it doesn't cost $500 to hire a lawyer... it costs $2500+ where I'm at
    #2 I just finished sealing my juvenile records today without a lawyer at all and it cost me $75 + travel expences

    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Not to beat a dead horse, but this site seems to answer a number of questions....does he make it a bigger issue than we think?

    http://www.washrecord.com/faqFA.htm
    Reguarding that link, it applies to adults with adult criminal convictions, not adults with only juvenile convictions. LINK specifically deals with a situation where an adult who only has juvenile offences who seals his juvenile record has his firearms rights restored. The issue lies in the differences in laws reguarding juvenile and adlut criminal records in washington statue.

    Adult criminal records are rarely sealed as it poses an issue between the rights of the person and their privacy vs. the rights of the public to know about their history. It lies in the hands of the person with the record to prove that their rights to privacy outweighs the rights of the public.

    While juvenile criminal records are considered less serious and the state laws allows for adluts with only juvenile criminal records to be given a fresh clean start. Only the most serious of offences considered to be excluded from the sealing of juvenile records, such things as rape, murder etc... When a juvenile record is sealed, it is made as if it never happened. It speccifically states in RCW 13.50.050 that if the order to seal is granted, re records will be treated as if they nover occured. This is the case with me...

    Up untill today, I only had a juvenile criminal record, but with the order to seal being granted this morning about 10:50 or so, my record is no non-existant and I can answer honestly and legally any questions to that effect. Since I had a felony as a juvenile, I would have been prcluded from owning firearms. But since the records no longer exist then the crime never took place and neither did the conviction. RCW 13.50.050 Section 14a of that RCW deals specifically with the effects of the sealing. RCW 9.41.040 the very end of section 3 of this RCW specifically states that "Where no record of the court's disposition of the charges can be found, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the person was not convicted of the charge."

    If, by chance somebody in law enforcement was to arrest me in the future for unlawful posession of a firearm and they accessed my SEALED records, I'm fairly certian that I would not only have more then enough grounds for dismisal, but I would most likely have grounds to sue for false arrest as well as violation of my 2nd and 4th amendment rights. So long as I keep my nose clean for the rest of my adulthood.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Looking for lawyers!

    I am looking for lawyers willing to give free legal advice. Not lookig for representation in court, just looking for some help and suggestions on how to deal with a situation. I started a thread in the washington sub section My thread

    If anybody would be willing to help me or at the very least, refer me to somebody that can, please feel free to post here or send me a PM.

    --Moderator note--
    Threads merged
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-10-2012 at 07:55 AM.

  25. #25
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    Just a little word of wise warning here. If you somehow manage to be wrong, simply filling out the Form 4473 under the premise that you "thought" you didn't have to answer yes to the conviction question means you will have actually committed a crime, something that usually gets a visit from some sort of law enforcement authority...rather quickly I might add since they tend to call the shop within an hour.

    You need to consult a lawyer on this. If ANY portion of that record is in your FBI file and can be accessed via NICS, you're screwed!
    Sealing is not necessarily a restoration of rights unless State law is written to say so. Executive clemency isn't always a restoration of rights in some States; in some it's a restoration only and your criminal record still exists. Remember, even if it's sealed IF law enforcement has cause it can be opened. Given the BATFE's latest rule-change in violation of the due process clause, you should expect that at some point they'll find a way to address that as well (not aimed at you necessarily).



    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    #1 it doesn't cost $500 to hire a lawyer... it costs $2500+ where I'm at
    #2 I just finished sealing my juvenile records today without a lawyer at all and it cost me $75 + travel expences



    Reguarding that link, it applies to adults with adult criminal convictions, not adults with only juvenile convictions. LINK specifically deals with a situation where an adult who only has juvenile offences who seals his juvenile record has his firearms rights restored. The issue lies in the differences in laws reguarding juvenile and adlut criminal records in washington statue.

    Adult criminal records are rarely sealed as it poses an issue between the rights of the person and their privacy vs. the rights of the public to know about their history. It lies in the hands of the person with the record to prove that their rights to privacy outweighs the rights of the public.

    While juvenile criminal records are considered less serious and the state laws allows for adluts with only juvenile criminal records to be given a fresh clean start. Only the most serious of offences considered to be excluded from the sealing of juvenile records, such things as rape, murder etc... When a juvenile record is sealed, it is made as if it never happened. It speccifically states in RCW 13.50.050 that if the order to seal is granted, re records will be treated as if they nover occured. This is the case with me...

    Up untill today, I only had a juvenile criminal record, but with the order to seal being granted this morning about 10:50 or so, my record is no non-existant and I can answer honestly and legally any questions to that effect. Since I had a felony as a juvenile, I would have been prcluded from owning firearms. But since the records no longer exist then the crime never took place and neither did the conviction. RCW 13.50.050 Section 14a of that RCW deals specifically with the effects of the sealing. RCW 9.41.040 the very end of section 3 of this RCW specifically states that "Where no record of the court's disposition of the charges can be found, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the person was not convicted of the charge."

    If, by chance somebody in law enforcement was to arrest me in the future for unlawful posession of a firearm and they accessed my SEALED records, I'm fairly certian that I would not only have more then enough grounds for dismisal, but I would most likely have grounds to sue for false arrest as well as violation of my 2nd and 4th amendment rights. So long as I keep my nose clean for the rest of my adulthood.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 09-07-2012 at 11:40 PM.

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