I was dumb when I was young but now I wanna fix it.

Lammo said:

Double check with Pierce County that you can't file for restoration there if that's where you currently live. We have people all the time who live in Spokane now but their conviction was in another county or state. We also have people who file their own petitions all the time without hiring an attorney. Not to take bread off the table of my brothers and sisters at the bar but this is one situation where you really can do it yourself.

The Spokane County Superior Court website has all the forms you need here: http://www.spokanecounty.org/superiorcourt/content.aspx?c=1105. They are downloadable in Word format so all you need to do is change the name of the County to Pierce or Kitsap in the heading. Check the Pierce or Kitsap Superior Court websites as they may have their own forms.

You can set up your own hearing date (Note For Hearing Form should be available on-line) and you can find out what day(s) motions are set from the court's websites. In Spokane these are heard on Friday mornings but each county is different. Just be sure to give whichever prosecutor's office plenty of notice. There's a minimum amount of time required under the local rules - - give them more. Also, check with them a couple of days before your hearing date. If all i's are crossed and t's dotted they may sign off on an agreed order (we do all the time here in Spokane).

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Grim_Night said:

Difdi: "(Washington does not issue concealed weapon licenses)" http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faconcealreq.html <~ please rethink that statement lol (ha! reread that and understood your meaning... in my mind, CPL, CWP, and all the other things like that all mean the same thing...)

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Dave_pro2a said:

Opinion: spend $500 +- and hire a lawyer to take care of this for you (one who is familiar with this sort of issue).

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jt59 said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but this site seems to answer a number of questions....does he make it a bigger issue than we think?

http://www.washrecord.com/faqFA.htm

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Grim_Night said:

#1 it doesn't cost $500 to hire a lawyer... it costs $2500+ where I'm at
#2 I just finished sealing my juvenile records today without a lawyer at all and it cost me $75 + travel expences



Reguarding that link, it applies to adults with adult criminal convictions, not adults with only juvenile convictions. LINK specifically deals with a situation where an adult who only has juvenile offences who seals his juvenile record has his firearms rights restored. The issue lies in the differences in laws reguarding juvenile and adlut criminal records in washington statue.

Adult criminal records are rarely sealed as it poses an issue between the rights of the person and their privacy vs. the rights of the public to know about their history. It lies in the hands of the person with the record to prove that their rights to privacy outweighs the rights of the public.

While juvenile criminal records are considered less serious and the state laws allows for adluts with only juvenile criminal records to be given a fresh clean start. Only the most serious of offences considered to be excluded from the sealing of juvenile records, such things as rape, murder etc... When a juvenile record is sealed, it is made as if it never happened. It speccifically states in RCW 13.50.050 that if the order to seal is granted, re records will be treated as if they nover occured. This is the case with me...

Up untill today, I only had a juvenile criminal record, but with the order to seal being granted this morning about 10:50 or so, my record is no non-existant and I can answer honestly and legally any questions to that effect. Since I had a felony as a juvenile, I would have been prcluded from owning firearms. But since the records no longer exist then the crime never took place and neither did the conviction. RCW 13.50.050 Section 14a of that RCW deals specifically with the effects of the sealing. RCW 9.41.040 the very end of section 3 of this RCW specifically states that "Where no record of the court's disposition of the charges can be found, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the person was not convicted of the charge."

If, by chance somebody in law enforcement was to arrest me in the future for unlawful posession of a firearm and they accessed my SEALED records, I'm fairly certian that I would not only have more then enough grounds for dismisal, but I would most likely have grounds to sue for false arrest as well as violation of my 2nd and 4th amendment rights. So long as I keep my nose clean for the rest of my adulthood.

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REALteach4u said:

Just a little word of wise warning here. If you somehow manage to be wrong, simply filling out the Form 4473 under the premise that you "thought" you didn't have to answer yes to the conviction question means you will have actually committed a crime, something that usually gets a visit from some sort of law enforcement authority...rather quickly I might add since they tend to call the shop within an hour. RCW 13.50.050 section (14)(a) If the court grants the motion to seal made pursuant to subsection (11) of this section, it shall, subject to subsection (23) of this section, order sealed the official juvenile court file, the social file, and other records relating to the case as are named in the order. Thereafter, the proceedings in the case shall be treated as if they never occurred, and the subject of the records may reply accordingly to any inquiry about the events, records of which are sealed. Any agency shall reply to any inquiry concerning confidential or sealed records that records are confidential, and no information can be given about the existence or nonexistence of records concerning an individual.



You need to consult a lawyer on this. If ANY portion of that record is in your FBI file and can be accessed via NICS, you're screwed! As far as it stands now, I already can legally own firearms... the state patrol has already run my criminal history on at least 3 occasions. All 3 occasions, I have been reliably told that I have my firearms rights. Also... the FBI criminal records are stored with each state's state patrol. When the state patrol updates their records, they automatically update the FBI's records. If the state patrol's records indicate that I have no criminal record then the FBI's records indicate the same thing. LINK " Each State has a criminal records repository responsible for the collection and maintenance of criminal history records submitted by law enforcement agencies in its State. The State record repositories are the primary source of criminal history records maintained at the FBI."

Sealing is not necessarily a restoration of rights unless State law is written to say so. LINK "If the proceedings never occurred, logically the end result-a conviction-never occurred either.   The plain language of the expungement statute entitles Nelson to act and be treated as if he has not previously been convicted.   If he has not previously been convicted, he may legally possess firearms." Also... "Not only does the expungement statute support Nelson's position, the firearm statute itself states that where “no record of the court's disposition of the charges can be found, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the person was not convicted of the charge.”  RCW 9.41.040(3).   The State did not present any records showing that Nelson has been convicted of a predicate offense that precludes him from possessing firearms.   The State could not have done so, because there are no longer official records of any such offense.   Nelson's conviction record from the Washington State Patrol is in evidence and it shows no prior convictions.   Accordingly, Nelson was entitled to the statutory presumption that he was not convicted.   This presumption is consistent with the expungement statute's directive to treat Nelson's convictions as if they never occurred."

We conclude that RCW 9.41.040 does not make it unlawful for Nelson to carry a firearm so long as he has no convictions other than those expunged.   The trial court erred in concluding otherwise.

Reversed and remanded for further proceedings not inconsistent with this opinion.


Executive clemency isn't always a restoration of rights in some States; in some it's a restoration only and your criminal record still exists. Remember, even if it's sealed IF law enforcement has cause it can be opened. RCW 13.50.050 section (16) Any adjudication of a juvenile offense or a crime subsequent to sealing has the effect of nullifying the sealing order. Any charging of an adult felony subsequent to the sealing has the effect of nullifying the sealing order for the purposes of chapter 9.94A RCW. The administrative office of the courts shall ensure that the superior court judicial information system provides prosecutors access to information on the existence of sealed juvenile records.


Given the BATFE's latest rule-change in violation of the due process clause, you should expect that at some point they'll find a way to address that as well (not aimed at you necessarily).

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alexm963 said:

I highly suggest you go through the restoration of rights process. I have done this exact thing this year and was told by the deputy prosecutor that sealing it was not enough, I needed to get my rights restored.

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Grim_Night;1822155 said:

I am looking for lawyers willing to give free legal advice. Not lookig for representation in court, just looking for some help and suggestions on how to deal with a situation. I started a thread in the washington sub section My thread

If anybody would be willing to help me or at the very least, refer me to somebody that can, please feel free to post here or send me a PM.[/
QUOTE]

Probably the best lawyer you're going to get it YOU.

If you can operate a computer as well as you seem to be able to do, have a look at the LAW LIBRARY at the head of this forum and look for Practicing Pro Se.

As for all that transporation/travel you spoke of, odds are you can do most of that application process by first class mail.

From the sound of it you're no dummy and you've wised up ... now start using that mind of yours as well as your computer skills.

tyc

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tyc said:

Probably the best lawyer you're going to get it YOU.

If you can operate a computer as well as you seem to be able to do, have a look at the LAW LIBRARY at the head of this forum and look for Practicing Pro Se.

As for all that transporation/travel you spoke of, odds are you can do most of that application process by first class mail.

From the sound of it you're no dummy and you've wised up ... now start using that mind of yours as well as your computer skills.

tyc

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Grim_Night said:

I am looking for lawyers willing to give free legal advice, (blah,blah,blah).
If anybody would be willing to help me or at the very least, refer me to somebody that can, please feel free to post here or send me a PM.

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lawyers willing to give free legal advice

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Grim_Night said:

... I have to do alot of the work myself.
I'm mainly just looking for somebody that has way more education then I do in the field of law that can maybe review what I have already done and can point me in the right direction of where to go from here to make sure that I do it right.
... just some friendly legal advice that I can use as a starting point ... a guide to keep me on track and maybe to help out should I run into an obstical I'm not sure how to handle.

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Grim_Night said:

I just got *the* call! my background check came back on my handgun purchase and I'm free to pick it up any time! This means that my CPL background check is gonna be clean too I hope. I'm gonna go pick up my Smith & Wesson M&P .40 today! Will update with pics of my new friend later tonight!

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