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WA: When am I required to provide ID / name / age / address, etc?

theaero

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
116
Location
Bellevue, WA
I can't find any information on this, but want to be prepared in case of a stop.

I open carry a SA 1911 loaded SS everyday in Bellevue, WA. I carry it legally, and also have my CPL, but no good CC holsters at the moment. Waiting for my Crossbreed, and will likely conceal from there on out.

I do not like providing police with information. There's nothing on my record, but something about it makes me feel like a criminal. Can anyone provide some insight on when I have to provide police with my information if I am open carrying?

Thank you!
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Washington is not a "Stop and Identify" state, there must exist a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you have recently committed, are committing, or are about to commit a criminal act for an officer to legally detain you.
So, with that, you aren't required to give your identification to each and every Officer Friendly that comes up to you. However, should you be under arrest, be a material witness to a criminal act or incident, or being booked you could possibly be charged with Obstruction for ... well, for obstructing the officer in his duties.



Now, the question is, does Washington require you to carry a firearms license and other identifying documents when you are carrying a firearm and does Washington require you to produce them upon demand?
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
RCW 46.61.021 requires you to provide your name and current address only if you are stopped for a traffic offense is the only statute I can find dealing with the issue. The US Supreme Court ruled in Hiibel v Nevada that a police officer is not violating your rights under the US constitution to make you produce your name to a police officer if he has PC for a detention. I'm unsure of how WA courts have ruled about the state constitution at this time
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
RCW 46.61.021
Duty to obey law enforcement officer — Authority of officer.


(1) Any person requested or signaled to stop by a law enforcement officer for a traffic infraction has a duty to stop.

(2) Whenever any person is stopped for a traffic infraction, the officer may detain that person for a reasonable period of time necessary to identify the person, check for outstanding warrants, check the status of the person's license, insurance identification card, and the vehicle's registration, and complete and issue a notice of traffic infraction.

(3) Any person requested to identify himself or herself to a law enforcement officer pursuant to an investigation of a traffic infraction has a duty to identify himself or herself and give his or her current address.

[2006 c 270 § 1; 1997 1st sp.s. c 1 § 1; 1989 c 353 § 7; 1979 ex.s. c 136 § 4.]
 

Schlepnier

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
420
Location
Yelm, Washington USA
Since your ne here theaero

first welcome to the forums,

now repeat after me-

when stopped by an officer assuming you were not knowingly breaking any laws(IE speeding etc)

Step 1
"why am i being detained officer?"

if the reply is that you are not being detained then it is a concensual encounter and you are free to leave whenever you choose. which is usually best replied to by saying-

Step 2-
"well if i am not being detained in accordance with the law i assume i am free to leave, have a nice day officer"

Alternate step 2-
if he says you are being detained-
"what crime are you investigating."

Now we have gotten to this point make sure your up to speed on the laws because it is real easy to tell if he is BSing you just to use his color of authority to get your info.

Wa state is an open carry state therefore a lawful activity, it cannot be a legit terry stop- futher Deberry VS US held that it is unlawful to stop someone carrying a fdirearm where it is legal to do so simple for the act of carrying as it is not grounds for a lawful terry stop.


Be aware that law enforcement and some others can demand to see your CPL in a situation that requires it t be present by law-an officer sees you get into/out of a car carrying. you get on a public bus/train/trolley since you are required to have a CPL to carry in a vehicle in this state.
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Since your ne here theaero

first welcome to the forums,

now repeat after me-

when stopped by an officer assuming you were not knowingly breaking any laws(IE speeding etc)

Step 1
"why am i being detained officer?"

if the reply is that you are not being detained then it is a concensual encounter and you are free to leave whenever you choose. which is usually best replied to by saying-

Step 2-
"well if i am not being detained in accordance with the law i assume i am free to leave, have a nice day officer"

Alternate step 2-
if he says you are being detained-
"what crime are you investigating."

Now we have gotten to this point make sure your up to speed on the laws because it is real easy to tell if he is BSing you just to use his color of authority to get your info.

Wa state is an open carry state therefore a lawful activity, it cannot be a legit terry stop- futher Deberry VS US held that it is unlawful to stop someone carrying a fdirearm where it is legal to do so simple for the act of carrying as it is not grounds for a lawful terry stop.


Be aware that law enforcement and some others can demand to see your CPL in a situation that requires it t be present by law-an officer sees you get into/out of a car carrying. you get on a public bus/train/trolley since you are required to have a CPL to carry in a vehicle in this state.

you left out one word , "loaded", there is an entire recent thread on that issue http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?105615-9-41-050-and-9-41-060-discussion
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Posession of a firearm is not a crime. You may openly carry a sidearm in a holster pretty much anywhere you can legally be without a CPL. restriction are in RCW 9.41.300.

Without a reason to suspect criminal activity you cannot legally be stopped and have our ID demanded. State v Casad.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
RCW 46.61.021 requires you to provide your name and current address only if you are stopped for a traffic offense is the only statute I can find dealing with the issue. The US Supreme Court ruled in Hiibel v Nevada that a police officer is not violating your rights under the US constitution to make you produce your name to a police officer if he has PC for a detention. I'm unsure of how WA courts have ruled about the state constitution at this time

A subtle but crucial point. Hiibel didn't say quite that. Hiibel said a state statute compelling the giving of identity did not violate rights.

"While we recognize petitioner’s strong belief that he should not have to disclose his identity, the Fifth Amendment does not override the Nevada Legislature’s judgment to the contrary absent a reasonable belief that the disclosure would tend to incriminate him."

See the next to last paragraph: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/03-5554/#writing-ZO

Thus, if there is no state law or local ordinace compelling identity, there is no violation. Also, do keep in mind that the law may be more than just a statute or ordinance to that effect. It could also be charged as obstruction to refuse to identify if all the rest of the constitutional conditions are met. Any given state may have appeals court or supreme court rulings that refusing to identify counts as obstruction. In a nutshell, if you want to be mostly safe about refusing to identify, you'll want to look a little further than just looking for a stop-and-identify ordinance or statute.
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Need to run loff, but there is no "obstruction"charge for failing to provide identity during the investigation in Washington, you provide ID in a traffic stop, since teh LEO has PC prior to the stop. I will add cites later.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Need to run loff, but there is no "obstruction"charge for failing to provide identity during the investigation in Washington, you provide ID in a traffic stop, since teh LEO has PC prior to the stop. I will add cites later.

Wait a second. You provide ID in a traffic stop because the cop has PC prior to the stop? Or, you provide a license during a traffic stop because you are engaged in a licensed activity and the state requires display of the license?
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
Wait a second. You provide ID in a traffic stop because the cop has PC prior to the stop? Or, you provide a license during a traffic stop because you are engaged in a licensed activity and the state requires display of the license?

Because the cop has PC. Washington Article 1 section 7 protections are extremely strong, in fact WA's constitution protects virtually all of a citizens rights more so then the federal constitution. A police officer needs probable cause to pull over your car (WA State Patrol regulation manual Chapter 1 sD ssE)

Pretextual stops for a minor offense as an excuse to conduct a criminal investigation are illegal (State v Ladson)

The cops can't even search your garbage without PC (State v Greenwood)

They can't stop you just to check your ID, but they can compel you to produce a drivers license if you are driving and they stop you becuase they had PC to make the stop.
 
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