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Thread: Interesting article about "the best caliber" debate.

  1. #1
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Interesting article about "the best caliber" debate.

    So I just found this article and I thought it was really fascinating.

    http://www.usconcealedcarry.net/2012...ncealed-carry/

    I make no bones about the fact that I carry 9mm and am 100% comfortable in it's ability to protect me. I don't care what anyone else says about that.

    What I find really interesting about this article is a few highlights. First, based on actual real world data, the .45ACP is not the panacea some people think. It's not a bad round. It's just not what people make it out to be. Second, among the most common defensive calibers, the stats show very little difference in terms of ability to protect you. Third, the psychological aspect of just having a gun is more effective than what caliber you have. Fourth, shot placement is king.

    If you don't feel like clicking on the link to read it, here are some bullet points. The data collected was nearly 2000 shootings over 10 years. The values he keys in on are % stopped after 1 shot, avg Number of shots to stop, and % that didn't stop at all.

    Most commonly used defense calibers are .380ACP, 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP. Among those 4, the numbers are like this:

    .380ACP
    • 62% stopped on 1 shot
    • 1.76 shots to stop
    • 16% did not stop


    9mm
    • 47% stopped on 1 shot
    • 2.45 shots to stop
    • 13% did not stop


    .40S&W
    • 52% stopped on 1 shot
    • 2.36 shots to stop
    • 13% did not stop


    .45ACP
    • 51% stopped on 1 shot
    • 2.08 shots to stop
    • 14% did not stop


    It's not uncommon for an attacker to stop after on shot simply due to the survival instinct. You don't want to get shot again. He also says that in head shots 75% were incapacitated, 41% in torso, and only 14% in extremity. Shot placement.

    and finally "Despite all the bluster you see on the internet about not carrying a defensive pistol unless the caliber “starts with a 4,” the .40 and .45 do not perform significantly better than the 9mm in real life gunfights."

    Bottom line to me is, carry what you want. Doesn't really give an advantage or disadvantage to carry 9mm vs .45 vs .40. They are effectively all the same in the real world.

  2. #2
    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    I'll add my 2cents - Carry what you want and practice with what you've got!

    Good article. Thanks

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    I've had a saying for years: If one round was clearly superior to another we wouldn't still be arguing about it!

    I carry either a 9mm or a .45ACP depending on how I feel that day!

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That...

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    *snort*

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Talk less, practice more. I love it. I was thinking about the perceived effectiveness of the mouse guns in the article. I wonder if that is because women are more likely to carry a smaller caliber handguns and a potential attacker would not be expecting to encounter any gun. When the first shot goes, they panic and run. It's a thought.

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    I prefer a round not listed, 10mm. Which is the daddy of the .40. On another chart I checked it had an 80-90% 1st shot stop rate. You can't miss fast enough though, doesn't matter what you have if you can't hit.

    That said, I also prefer having decent capacity on the gun (over 10 rounds, preferably 15). While in most cases it won't be a factor, if it happens to be a persistent multi-assailant situation (ie like you were a witness against a gang, and they are trying to kill you) with you taking cover behind a wall, dumpster or other obstruction, you need to have enough rounds to keep them ducking, from getting LOS on you till police arrive. Then I submit, having a high cap firearm with spare mags will be the difference between life & death. If you only have a 7 shot with no spare mag, you'll likely run out of ammo or face simultaneous incoming fire, whereas with a high amount of shots you can use periodic fire to keep them back and still have ammmo left for any potential direct engagement.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmodavis View Post
    I'll add my 2cents - Carry what you want and practice with what you've got!
    Bingo! You can carry caliber X all day long, but if you don't practice it wont do you a bit of good.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Bingo! You can carry caliber X all day long, but if you don't practice it wont do you a bit of good.
    I spent 4 hours in a class last night ... clearing malfunctions.. that was it.. Immediate Action Drills for 4 hours.. lol..

    I take way too many classes :P

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  11. #11
    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I spent 4 hours in a class last night ... clearing malfunctions.. that was it.. Immediate Action Drills for 4 hours.. lol..

    I take way too many classes :P

    --Rob
    Where are you taking these classes? Sounds interesting(to a gun geek)..... :P

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Where are you taking these classes? Sounds interesting(to a gun geek)..... :P
    These are private classes for the Colorado Rangers..
    I will be providing similar classes starting in September to the public.

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I read the article before. The gentleman who wrote it did a very good job at explaining how he got his numbers. It also showed why some of his numbers are meaningless, especially the "shots to stop" number. Most who have good training will fire two shots before even doing a BDA (Battle Damage Assessment), known as a "double tap," "controlled pair," or whatever you want to call it. Many of these events could probably have been stopped with one shot, but his numbers are going to average in the two that were actually fired.

    If anyone wants to actually use (or even ponder) the numbers, please read the article and the author's comments. He did a very good write-up.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Wolfstanus's Avatar
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    But mr. Yeager says 9mm is the only thing you should use. .40 /45 is worthless and jams. He also tell me to sell my handgun and tells me to buy a g19 to replace my unreliable 1911. Ima listen to him. He knows what's best for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    These are private classes for the Colorado Rangers..
    I will be providing similar classes starting in September to the public.

    --Rob
    I'm very interested in taking your classes! I'll keep checking your website for the info.

    Keens

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keens View Post
    I'm very interested in taking your classes! I'll keep checking your website for the info.

    Keens
    Same here
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keens View Post
    I'm very interested in taking your classes! I'll keep checking your website for the info.

    Keens
    Don't forget the FB page too :P

    and thanks to both of you =)

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 08-09-2012 at 10:12 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  18. #18
    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Don't forget the FB page too :P

    and thanks to both of you =)

    --Rob
    Me three. FB? Website?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Me three. FB? Website?
    http://www.facebook.com/ktgfirearms

    http://www.ktgfirearms.com

    =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  20. #20
    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    You've been liked.

    I was gonna sign my name too, but figured it was pretty obvious.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    You've been liked.

    I was gonna sign my name too, but figured it was pretty obvious.
    haha! Thanks.. I saw =)

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  22. #22
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Rob, I liked your page too...I'm Bryson
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    Rob, I liked your page too...I'm Bryson
    =)

    I am working on the range this weekend.. Building new target holders.. I need to hire someone to extend my berm a bit.. KNow anyone w/ a bobcat / loader?

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  24. #24
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    Shot what u shot best

    My Oc would surprise most of you,,,,, KEL-Tec PMR 30 22 mag and its a shooter,,,, so I go for accuracy over brawn,,30 ten rings beats 15 scarrered shots any day

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