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Henderson handgun registration.

The Big Guy

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Chat 2

My contact with the national firearm rights group called me again today and we had another long discussion. Things look really good at this point.
I feel good about it. They are moving forward with a real investigation.

They are also very interested in issues with Clark County as well.

I will give more details later as right now I'm not at liberty to divulge some of it.

TBG
 

Turbod'1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
181
Location
Henderson, NV now Texas. I move a lot.
My contact with the national firearm rights group called me again today and we had another long discussion. Things look really good at this point.
I feel good about it. They are moving forward with a real investigation.

They are also very interested in issues with Clark County as well.

I will give more details later as right now I'm not at liberty to divulge some of it.

TBG

I fail to see the transparency.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but --if you're on our side, and they are on our side, AND this is a forum for people to explore the application of their rights -- why is it that: "not at liberty to divulge some of it."

:confused:
 

The Big Guy

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Messages
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Waco, TX
I fail to see the transparency.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but --if you're on our side, and they are on our side, AND this is a forum for people to explore the application of their rights -- why is it that: "not at liberty to divulge some of it."

:confused:

You're forgiven.

TBG
 
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DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I fail to see the transparency.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but --if you're on our side, and they are on our side, AND this is a forum for people to explore the application of their rights -- why is it that: "not at liberty to divulge some of it."

:confused:

That is a good point, I too struggle with remaining transparent and still being able to operate... It killed me to not post the court video of the Sheriffs and Chiefs Lawsuit, the day I put it on you tube 8/15 the problem was the Judge had not signed the order, and there is always the chance that the defendants could appeal. Those variables were enough to keep me from posting it. There are other things strategy wise that could interfere, when you form a lawsuit etc, I feel your pain,but let TBG operate, and support, or better yet offer to tote some of the enormous workload that goes into these things, then you will be in the know.
 

SharpShootur

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Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
131
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Ah ha! So THIS is where you guys ran off too huh? I decided to browse a few other threads and WAM! There ye be! :) I've gone over this thread briefly and can see very clearly that a big fight over city ordinances in regards to preemption in state law is looming. On a personal note, I'm glad I've found you guys here on OC.ORG. You all are SO knowledgeable and SO passionate in your endeavors. I hope to be able to rise to the stature of legal knowledge and professional know-how that you have all obtained. PLEASE consider me for apprenticeship! I'm willing to learn!! I would like to participate with you all in these situations. I think it's important to fight for our rights guaranteed in our beloved constitution.

To The Big Guy, JOB WELL DONE! If I could meet you in person, I'd ask for your autograph! If you EVER run for office, YOU have my vote! Of course, don't forget to staff your assistance with the people here who have helped you along the way. With ALL of you working together in political matters, all of you would be an all-star team! I will work hard for you guys, if you are willing to teach me, and show myself accountable.

Again, keep up the good work and please keep us informed. Thank you.
 

case.layne

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Sitrep?

TBG/all

Please forgive my resurrecting an old thread and/or showing up late to the party. I have recently moved to Henderson from So. Utah whilst working in ND.
I am curious if you have any new information regarding this just and prudent cause. A quick search of the HMC shows that 8.98.030 is still in existence. Are you still working with the advocacy group? Have the double talking pencil pushers worn you down? Again as others have said before Thank You for your many efforts, it is not hard to imagine repealing this code as a decent step towards repealing Clark Co. code regarding handgun registration.

Also I noticed 8.98.10 requires written permission from the chief of police to conceal a weapon (I know this is an open carry forum but I believe this still holds interest to many of us). I doubt many, if any, concealed carriers in Henderson have written permission from the chief of police in addition to a NV CWP. Just to note another relevant code note properly administered or enforced.
 
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MAC702

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
As a practical matter, registration is still expected and normally done by those not willing to be the test case. I will place bets, though, that registration will be outlawed by the state legislature this year. It is a top priority and we have the majority to do it.

I will not tell you what to do, but I personally would not register anything that I don't expect to be found on my person at a traffic stop.

As a practical matter, the City does not care one bit about the Chief's permission to conceal, and you would be expected to have a County-issued state CCW permit. I doubt the Chief even knows the old system is on the books, nor how it used to be done.
 
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The Big Guy

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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
TBG/all

Please forgive my resurrecting an old thread and/or showing up late to the party. I have recently moved to Henderson from So. Utah whilst working in ND.
I am curious if you have any new information regarding this just and prudent cause. A quick search of the HMC shows that 8.98.030 is still in existence. Are you still working with the advocacy group? Have the double talking pencil pushers worn you down? Again as others have said before Thank You for your many efforts, it is not hard to imagine repealing this code as a decent step towards repealing Clark Co. code regarding handgun registration.

Also I noticed 8.98.10 requires written permission from the chief of police to conceal a weapon (I know this is an open carry forum but I believe this still holds interest to many of us). I doubt many, if any, concealed carriers in Henderson have written permission from the chief of police in addition to a NV CWP. Just to note another relevant code note properly administered or enforced.

Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply to this.

Just to quickly sum things up for you, the requirement for Henderson is that you are to register your concealable handguns with the Chief of Police. The ordinance does not allow the Chief to pawn this responsibility off on the County. In order to push this I sent a registered letter to the Henderson Chief of Police registering my latest purchase which is my everyday carry firearm. It IS NOT registered with Clark County. That was a half year ago or more and I'm still walking around free. They have no intention of allowing me to "test" their ordinance. The ordinance stands only for the unaware.

The county registration ordinance is only for those who live in the unincorporated areas of Clark County, and those who by city ordinance reside within the City of Las Vegas. The City of N. L. V. has a similar ordinance to that of Las Vegas, but it was instituted long after pre-emption and is there for invalid. The county CANNOT enforce their ordinance within the incorporated areas of the county, and those in the incorporated areas CANNOT enforce county ordinances. As a citizen of the incorporated City of Henderson I do not come under the jurisdiction of the County or the City of Las Vegas. Therefore the City of Las Vegas CANNOT enforce their ordinance upon me if I happen to be in the City of Las Vegas, just the same as they CANNOT enforce it against anyone coming in from out of the County.

Regarding 8.98.010, the city knows this was abolished under pre-emption, and have admitted it to me, but again leaves it in place to scare the unaware.


In answer to your question as to if they have worn me down. Not really, I just don't see any reason to keep blasting at the city as they have a City Attorney who is just not going to do the right thing. On the other hand, he is not going to let the issue go to court. In that regard I guess we are at a stalemate.

I had a national gun rights group lined up to take up the cause, and they seemed very interested in it, but have since become silent on the issue. They stopped answering my calls, and don't return any communications. My belief is that a certain person got them to back off. As it would break forum rules I can't disclose who this group and person is.

I think we have a chance to make some changes in the upcoming legislative session so basically I'm taking a wait and see position.

Be it advised of course these are my opinions and I am not a lawyer. I have studied the issue long and hard and believe my opinion has merit, but am of course not telling anyone that they should listen to me and do as I do.


TBG
 
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SovereigntyOrDeath

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
411
Location
Coeur D Alene, Idaho
Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply to this.

Just to quickly sum things up for you, the requirement for Henderson is that you are to register your concealable handguns with the Chief of Police. The ordinance does not allow the Chief to pawn this responsibility off on the County. In order to push this I sent a registered letter to the Henderson Chief of Police registering my latest purchase which is my everyday carry firearm. It IS NOT registered with Clark County. That was a half year ago or more and I'm still walking around free. They have no intention of allowing me to "test" their ordinance. The ordinance stands only for the unaware.

The county registration ordinance is only for those who live in the unincorporated areas of Clark County, and those who by city ordinance reside within the City of Las Vegas. The City of N. L. V. has a similar ordinance to that of Las Vegas, but it was instituted long after pre-emption and is there for invalid. The county CAN NOT enforce their ordinance within the incorporated areas of the county, and those in the incorporated areas CAN NOT enforce county ordinances. As a citizen of the incorporated City of Henderson I do not come under the jurisdiction of the County or the City of Las Vegas. Therefore the City of Las Vegas CAN NOT enforce their ordinance upon me if I happen to be in the City of Las Vegas, just the same as they CAN NOT enforce it against anyone coming in from out of the County.

Regarding 8.98.010, the city knows this was abolished under pre-emption, and have admitted it to me, but again leaves it in place to scare the unaware.


In answer to your question as to if they have worn me down. Not really, I just don't see any reason to keep blasting at the city as they have a City Attorney who is just not going to do the right thing. On the other hand, he is not going to let the issue go to court. In that regard I guess we are at a stalemate.

I had a national gun rights group lined up to take up the cause, and they seemed very interested in it, but have since become silent on the issue. They stopped answering my calls, and don't return any communications. My belief is that a certain person got them to back off. As it would break forum rules I can't disclose who this group and person is.

I think we have a chance to make some changes in the upcoming legislative session so basically I'm taking a wait and see position.

Be it advised of course these are my opinions and I am not a lawyer. I have studied the issue long and hard and believe my opinion has merit, but am of course not telling anyone that they should listen to me and do as I do.


TBG

Impressive. Great work. We need more folks like you. We had a situation here in Coeur d Alene Idaho were the city enacted an ordinance prohibiting open carry at parades. The law ran afoul of our state's Constitution. We have a group called Idaho Second Amendment who is challenging laws like that. We won and the city counsel eliminated the ordinance.

Maybe they can refer you to an organization that will stand with you in Nevada. Here is their contact info......http://www.idahosaa.org/contact/

Good luck and thank you for fighting the good fight!
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
TBG, and other residents of NLV and Henderson, here is a document you should read and print out. It's a few pages from a something called a P&P. Here's a relevant part for this thread:

"The cities of North Las Vegas, Henderson, and Boulder City, have their own ordinances, but contribute to the LVMPD file although it is not compulsory"

Well, we already know that Boulder City does NOT have its own registration ordinance, and does NOT contribute to Metro's, so we know we can't really trust anything this document claims.

HOWEVER, this is extremely interesting for you. You now have IN WRITING from Metro that NLV and Henderson are SEPARATE ordinances that are not compulsory to the County's. We already know, as do they, that ONLY the County's program is allowed per state law. You now have in writing Metro's admission that their registration ordinance does not apply to you.
 

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The Big Guy

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Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
TBG, and other residents of NLV and Henderson, here is a document you should read and print out. It's a few pages from a something called a P&P. Here's a relevant part for this thread:

"The cities of North Las Vegas, Henderson, and Boulder City, have their own ordinances, but contribute to the LVMPD file although it is not compulsory"

Well, we already know that Boulder City does NOT have its own registration ordinance, and does NOT contribute to Metro's, so we know we can't really trust anything this document claims.

HOWEVER, this is extremely interesting for you. You now have IN WRITING from Metro that NLV and Henderson are SEPARATE ordinances that are not compulsory to the County's. We already know, as do they, that ONLY the County's program is allowed per state law. You now have in writing Metro's admission that their registration ordinance does not apply to you.

Thanks Mac. I'm glad to have this.

On a side note: Can you immagine having an antique firearm and then defacing it by making up and stamping a serial number upon it per this document???

TBG
 

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
Here is a copy of what I sent.

TBG



Mayor Andy Hafen
Council Members Gerri Schroder, Debra March, John Marz, Sam Bateman
Henderson City Hall
POB 95050
Henderson NV 89009-5050

Dear Mayor and Council Members,

I have been in contact with the City Attorney’s office concerning outdated firearms ordinances
still on the books and in some cases still being enforced. Assistant City Attorney Robert Zentz
has let me know that our new City Attorney Josh Reid has instructed his office to examine all
city ordinances and review them as to any modifications or deletions needed. Unfortunately
there are ordinances still on the books that are in direct violation of state law and are still
being enforced.

As you know in 1989 and then again in 2007, the Nevada State Legislature took full pre-emption
of firearms laws within the state. The only exceptions they allowed were discharge of firearms
and handgun registration within Clark County.

Under SB-92, passed in 2007, all local ordinances not in compliance with state law were given a
set time to be modified or removed. The City of Henderson did not modify the handgun registration
ordinance, HMC 8.98.030, so therefore it is null and void.

Henderson Municipal code 8.98.030 reads:
It is unlawful for any person to own or have in his possession a gun, pistol, revolver or other
firearm capable of being concealed without first having registered it with the chief of police.

In order for this ordinance to be valid, state mandated language as directed by SB-92, would need
to have been added, stating that a resident has 72 hours upon Purchasing or bringing a handgun into
the jurisdiction to get it registered. It further would have needed to contain language stating that
anyone moving into or remaining in the jurisdiction for more than 60 days would have to register their
handguns. As you can see it contains neither. The registration would have to be with the Henderson
Chief of Police, not the Sheriff, and he would therefore have to be the holder of those records.

At some point a decision was made to have the Henderson Police Department register firearms under
County Ordinance 12.04.110 commonly referred to as the “Blue Card registration”. I have asked the
City Attorney’s office how the Chief of Police of the City of Henderson would have had the authority
to abrogate that responsibility under HMC 8.98.030 to the county? As an incorporated city, Henderson
is not required to conduct registration for the county nor is it subject to county ordinances within
the incorporated city. A.C.A. Zentz did not directly answer this question.

As Boulder City and Mesquite were incorporated cities at the time of pre-emption and did not have a registration ordinance in force
at the time, the citizens of those cities have never been required to register their firearms. As the Henderson code is no longer valid,
and has not been for some time, its citizens are not required to register either.

The cost to the County to administer the Blue Card program is in the neighborhood of two million dollars
a year, and it has registered in excess of 1.1 million handguns since 1973. The Sheriff has been unable
to point to one single crime solved because of it in the past sixty plus years. He has been asked this
by citizen groups as well as past Commission Chair Rory Reid and Commission MemberTom Collins.
In light of this I have researched the cost of this program to the City of Henderson and have been in
contact with Acting Captain Dane Matoon of the Henderson Police Department. With the information obtained
in that search I have estimated that the cost to the City of Henderson is in the area of $150,000.00 per
year. As with the Sheriff, the Henderson Police Department is unable to show any cost/benefit to the
people of Henderson. Why would it? Only honest citizens follow the law. Criminals don’t
register.

In these hard economic times it just does not make sense to continue a program that is sixty plus years
old, and at a tremendous cost, has shown absolutely no proof that it has been a benefit to the citizens
of the City of Henderson. This on top of the fact that it is unenforceable under Nevada Statutes.
I strongly urge the City Council to move quickly on stopping this unenforceable waste before it ends up
in litigation. The citizens of this city deserve to have their limited resources used more wisely. As the
patrol officers of this city have had to give up cost of living raises in the next two years, it is
ridiculous to spend this kind of money on an illegal and useless program. I for one would rather have
another cop on the street.

Respectfully



Cc: Josh M. Reid C.A; Jacob Snow C.M; Patrick E. Moers C of P



Question to TBG : would a Black Powder revolver like a Colt Army 1860 44 Cal, have to be registered under
HMC 8.98.030 or 12.04.110 ?
I love Black powder shooting :) Thanks ! Robin47 :)
 
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The Big Guy

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Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Question to TBG : would a Black Powder revolver like a Colt Army 1860 44 Cal, have to be registered under
HMC 8.98.030 or 12.04.110 ?
I love Black powder shooting :) Thanks ! Robin47 :)

The short answer is yes.

NRS 268.418 Pretty much says if it shoots, it's a gun. No distinction is made under this law. Henderson codes also do not make a distinction regarding concealable firearms. In fact under LV and County ordinances I believe they do call out black powder and antiques.

State law defines a firearm as follows: “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.

TBG
 

Ron_O

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
109
Location
Las Vegas
Just read this wall-to-wall for the first time and find it both disturbing and disgusting on behalf of the City of Henderson.

Also, I have to extend an exuberant 'hats off' to TBG for maintaining this incredible journey along the way. I really felt that your last two letters/schemes were completely dialed in as a plan of action.

It distressed me that by statute anytime I travel through Henderson, which can be daily, any handgun that I own or have in my possession must be registered with the Chief. Yes, it says OWN. So even if I'm not carrying, under strict definition, because I'm in Henderson I'm supposed to register all of those guns with the Chief.

Of course.

When I saw that they pulled the ordinance update from the council meeting it was obvious that they were stonewalling and simply bouncing the ball down the road a bit further. Why not? What's their downside for not doing so? These guys fear nothing other than legal action. NOTHING. And their tactic worked. NO CHANGE.

It's a standard business practice. I was a contractor for years and back then the only thing that got results was either the THREAT of legal action or an actual filing of an action. And if the offense was expensive even a filing might not do it, it may instead be a settlement during the 11th hour. It's simply a legal stall.

So when it's really only coming from one guy, in their eyes (maybe their perception, maybe not), short of being sued they really don't care, as outlined by the guy who said he got stonewalled until he threatened to make a citizen's arrest (awesome).

I sort of overlooked this thread a while back because I wasn't a resident of Henderson. But when I read the statute today I see that it clearly applies to me as 'ANY PERSON' since I'm in Henderson all the time and I'm always carrying a handgun.

How awesome would it be if we could somehow monitor arrests and then get in contact with and advise everyone who was cited under this code as a way of shutting any and all enforcement down. It seems to me that blue card weapons would NOT qualify under the code unless the Chief had amended the law to accept a blue card as an acceptable form of registration.

I too was a bit shocked to see that it had seemingly frozen in time after the last letter was sent out. I was expecting to hear results from the gun group and more. I'm not surprised that they didn't follow through because that's what tends to happen at times; lots of interest and good intentions, very little action.

But at this point I'm like TBG, it's time to wait to see what happens in Carson City. I shot a letter off this morning to the Senate Judiciary committee regarding Constitutional Carry and suggest that everyone else do the same in one form or another. Hopefully common sense will prevail and we'll soon see sweeping changes in our gun laws here in Nevada.

Lord willing and the creek don't rise, it'll be happening sooner rather than later. And to a certain city attorney who shall go unnamed, I have about the same amount of respect for you as I do your father. The apple doesn't seem to fall too far from the tree.

If our state officials don't get this corrected then I hope this will surface once again. This might be one of the 'Contact 13' issues that needs to be precisely laid out for the media to exploit. One simple news story can generate a ton of emails and phone calls and that in turn can fuel some action and results.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and our prayers flowing...
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Voting for City Council members...

I'm sure some of you here have received emails from our "State Association" regarding who to vote for in Las Vegas and N.L.V Mayor and Council races. I noticed that there is NO reference to any other city in the state.
As we don't seem to count, I just sent an email to one of the people running for city council here in Henderson.

TBG

Mr Uehara

I have been working for several years to get the City of Henderson to follow state law regarding firearms. I had some luck under the past City Attorney, but Josh Reid,
the mayor, and the present City Council refuse to make the changes in Henderson Code in order to bring the city in compliance with state pre-emption. In fact at one
point I had to organize a movement to stop Josh Reid from pushing through the Council a Clearly illegal ordinance.

On your website, and in the mailer I received from you today, you state that you are dedicated to “stop wasteful government spending”. As a financial planner I’m sure
you can understand the logic of not continuing with a program that has never shown a benefit. Let me explain.

First of all the County has a firearms registration program that has been in existence for over 60 years. Since the former Sheriff refused to audit this program, we can only
get a best estimate that the cost to the county alone is around 2 million dollars per year. In all these years not one single law enforcement agency in the county can point
to any benefit. Yes, that is correct, 60 years, millions of dollars, and NO crimes solved because of it.

I did a study on the City of Henderson’s participation in this program, which is not required, and I believe the cost is over one hundred thousand dollars per year. Again with NO cases solved because
of it.

Our city code 8.98.030 clearly states that firearms are to be registered with the Chief of Police. No authorization is given for the Chief to delegate that responsibility to the
county, yet for more years than anyone can remember, that is exactly what has been done. Our city codes do not say that registration with another entity will be accepted
as registration in Henderson.

There is much more that I could go into regarding the legalities of these city codes, but the point here is bang for the buck. Whether you believe in the right to keep and bear arms
or not, you surely can see the nonsense of continuing a program that has a high cost and NO benefit.

Can you please let me know where you would stand on these issues?
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
I'm sure some of you here have received emails from our "State Association" regarding who to vote for in Las Vegas and N.L.V Mayor and Council races. I noticed that there is NO reference to any other city in the state.
As we don't seem to count, I just sent an email to one of the people running for city council here in Henderson.

TBG

No response from Mr Uehara as of this time.

I also sent a response to the "State Association" pac asking why there is no mention of anything but LV and NLV. Below is the answer just recieved.


Hello Mr. Low,

We have not surveyed candidates in those races for the primary. We will do our best to reach out to candidates outside of Las Vegas in the general.

Thank you for your email!


---
Megan Bedera, PAC Manager
Nevada Firearms Coalition PAC
Nevadans for State Gun Rights PAC

Yep, guess the rest of us here in the south end and those of you up north don't count. Has anyone heard anything about a pending name change to the Las Vegas Firearms Coalition?

TBG
 
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