77zach
Regular Member
Coming back from Virginia where I CCed (carried comfortably) while educating the public by carrying openly. Pisse d afresh that I can't do so when I get home. Freakin' A.
Hopefully if we get open carry they don't do something stupid like making no gun signs enforceable by law.
Personally, I don't care what has or has not happened in any other state. I don't live in any other state. I live in Florida, where I currently carry my firearm 99% of the places I wish to go during my week. Honestly, I don't even go to the post office any more and the wife doesn't mind going to the courthouse when we've had business there. We don't have kids, so, we have no need to be near a school, much less go in. So, it's an extremely rare occasion that I have to disarm during my daily activities.
Perhaps you don't mind losing a one freedom to gain another, me, personally, I'm not willing to risk losing even one freedom I currently enjoy. I'm not willing to accept losing my favorite hardware store because his current sign makes carry illegal. Perhaps you see the loss of current carry freedoms as an acceptable loss to gain OC....I don't. To me, that wouldn't be a win. That would be trading one freedom for another.
YMMV though. As I said, constitutional carry, through the courts, is the only way I see to gain OC without the risk.
Nevermind. I had a much longer rant typed out for most the day....but all I'm doing is spinning my wheels trying to talk some sense into people. And I realize it was a little too nasty.....so, here goes... When you're losing what tiny speed advantage that open carry gives due to a retention holster, I don't want to hear it. When you can no longer carry in your favorite places because that stupid no guns sign now makes it illegal, don't look at me, I'll just say I told you so.
I'm amazed at how quickly people forget the betrayal they felt a year ago when this same legislative process backfired and the retention holster and training amendment was published. Does anyone actually believe that this year will be any different? That the FSA won't push for those pesky retention holsters and training again, or worse? Does anyone actually buy that the Retail Federation won't push for wording that gives their silly sign weight of law?
Now, does anyone actually believe that the lobbyists who are selling this bill actually have the guts to say no and risk the votes that those concessions can bring in Tallahassee?
I'll say it one more time. Hopefully more clear. What I am opposed to is the trading of one single current freedom we enjoy today for open carry. I do not believe that would be a win. I believe that it would be a step backwards and that to me is unacceptable. Constitutional carry or nothing else in my book. Not this "I'll scratch your back if you'll let me do this" back-room wheeling and dealing of current freedoms.
You really don't know who I am or who we are or what we are capable of doing or where we're willing to go to get this message out...
I've already answered these baseless charges;
HERE: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Fo...Secure-Right-to-Bear-Arms&p=445559#post445559
and
HERE: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Fo...Secure-Right-to-Bear-Arms&p=445580#post445580
As far as who WE are... We are Florida's largest Second Amendment Advocacy Organization with over 9,000 members and supporters. Only the NRA is larger.
We are the nearly 11,000 who have petitioned the legislature to legalize open carry.
We are the people who are getting out from behind our keyboards and letting our voice be heard in Tallahassee and beyond.
I am Sean Caranna, Executive Director of Florida Carry Inc., Founder of the modern Florida Open Carry Movement, combat veteran, husband, and a man bound by his sacred oath to defend the constitution.
There are a lot of people who know exactly what we who fight for the RIGHT to bear arms are capable of... We are capable of improving the right to carry in Florida and will not compromise that mission.
You still refuse to address the specific concerns I raise. You've continued to dodge the real issue like a masterful politician through deflection and misdirection. You're learning quickly from your politician friends, I'll give you that.
Plain and simple. Are you willing to accept, endorse, write, etc. any amendments that further restrict CURRENT rights and or privileges as a concession to garner votes in Tallahassee for your open carry bill? In other words, will you again accept an amendment from the FSA that calls for retention holsters and training (or any other wording that restricts carry in any way) in a deal with them to get votes, bluff or not?
You seem awfully steeled at arguing the difference between a right and a privilege. Of that, I have not argued. Your misdirection, while tactful, won't work on me. Actually, what that does demonstrate to me are your priorities. It's obvious that your priority is focused solely on rights and not privileges. And, since you appear to regard only open carry as a right, one MUST be concerned about how you regard anything else, such as freedom to carry without retention holsters, freedom to ignore no guns signs..etc. or even the privilege to carry concealed as many people in Florida prefer.
My concern has always been protecting the current freedoms we enjoy in Florida today and avoiding shooting ourselves in the foot trying to win open carry. What you have failed to understand is that not everyone in Florida is willing to give up one single freedom to gain open carry, even though you might. That is not a statement that is detrimental to the open carry movement as you'd have people believe. It's simply a statement of fact I will not let you ignore.
The basis of my argument is that if you are willing to trade one single current freedom (be it right or privilege), that is unacceptable to some, myself included.
Now, dispense with the cryptic political double speak and answer my question with a simple yes or no.
What part of "rest assured that Florida Carry would never do anything to make it harder to carry a gun in the State of Florida." was hard for you to understand?
Florida carry urgent action requested!
FLORIDA CARRY, INC. LEGISLATIVE ALERT
URGENT ACTION NEEDED!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – April 12, 2011
SB 234 – Bogdanoff Committee Amendment a Prelude to Killing OC
Members and friends,
Late today, Sen. Ellyn Bogdanoff (R-Fort Lauderdale), introduced a committee amendment to SB 234. This bill meets the Judiciary Committee tomorrow at 1PM. Sen. Bogdanoff is a member of this committee, and early on in the bill’s life, expressed reservations about open carry. She is now carrying through with an attempt to kill open carry.
The amendment, although looking innocuous enough, makes inadvertent exposure exempt from the prohibition of open carry in §790.053 Florida Statutes. However, the issue of inadvertent exposure is moot if the open carry bill is passed. It is apparent that this is a prelude to a floor amendment that would remove the open carry provision entirely in favor of this amendment language.
We urgently request you IMMEDIATELY e-mail the committee members and demand that they do not adopt, and demand that Sen. Bogdanoff immediately withdraw this open carry unfriendly amendment as a slap in the face to the law-abiding concealed carriers. Apparently, we cannot be trusted to decide for ourselves where and when open carry is appropriate despite almost a quarter century of impeccable behavior under the concealed carry statute.
Feel free to use the e-mail helper below, and thank you again for your solid support. We’re almost there, and we just need a final push to get this bill to the Governor’s desk for his promised signature.
E-mail Helper (feel free to cut, copy, paste, and edit to suit)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO:
***I've snipped email addresses to avoid any problems****
SUBJECT:
Withdraw/Reject SB 234 Amendment!
Dear Senators,
Sen. Ellyn Bogdanoff has proposed a committee amendment, inserting language that would amend §790.053 F.S. to exempt inadvertent exposure of a firearm by licensed concealed carriers while carrying concealed. This amendment must be withdrawn or rejected immediately, as it is clearly a prelude to removing the open carry provision of SB 234 in its entirety.
Neither the membership of Florida Carry, nor concealed carry license holders in general, will tolerate this attempt at destroying open carry. It is something that the license holders have not had the opportunity to do since 1987, and it is something they have earned through their faithful, law-abiding behavior for almost a quarter century.
As of March 31, 2011, over 1.95 million licenses have been issued by the Department of Agriculture, with only 168 being revoked for misuse of a firearm. Does that not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that license holders are responsible?
Senator Bogdanoff, you represent portions of Broward and Palm Beach counties. Those counties comprise 116,151 out of 801,219 active license holders in Florida, who will not forget this come election time.
Respectfully yours,
<your name>
You're still avoiding a direct answer to a direct question. But, I get it, I guess I don't blame you. It would probably be pretty bad to answer that question only to be caught making deals with the FSA again.
Let's look at this action request from 4/11 of last year. I've left it totally intact other than removing some email address information. We wouldn't want people sending out emails for an action report that is outdated. I borrowed from this thread. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?89128-Florida-carry-urgent-action-requested!
So, what we have here is an amendment to your bill that you did not want nor support. However, this unwanted amendment got passed, didn't it? It became the current wording of the statutes, right? You clearly do not have the control or power over the legislative process you claim.
You say you'd never do anything that would hurt gun carry in Florida, yet by your own admission, you cut a deal with the FSA asking them to support your bill. Then, an amendment was presented that would satisfy the FSA's calling for retention holsters, training and the most insulting of all, we would have display our ID in some form of badge holder.By your own admission, you have stated that you were only calling their bluff. but, by making that statement, yoy imply that you are holding the best hand, leading us to believe that you have enough control over the process as to kill any amendments or actions against the bill you dislike. The above debunks that notion. Fortunately, the FSA's amendment didn't go much further, but, as your sucker-punching brief exposure amendment mentioned above proves, the retention crap could have just as easily become the rule and you'd have had little control over the result.
I think you just go lucky last year in that we aren't carrying around retention holsters right now and wearing our stupid little ID badges.
Watching the legislative process unfold is not for the faint of heart, particularly in Tallahassee. Sausage making is not suitable for all audiences; laws are no different, viewer discretion is advised.
Here's what we at Florida Carry did in the last legislative session:
HB463 & SB998 - Shall Issue Carry Licenses for Military & Vets:
Those who defend our country overseas should be able to defend themselves and their families at home. There have been too many incidences of violence against our troops who have just returned from overseas deployments and found themselves defenseless at home. Florida Carry authored legislation that will insure that our current troops and honorably discharged veterans can obtain a license to carry regardless of age or duty station. The bill will also require that fingerprint cards be accepted from military police and provost so that service members stationed overseas can complete their applications.
There are over 8,000 adult service members under the age of 21 living in the State of Florida. Countless more resident veterans and annual military visitors who will have their right the bear arms advanced by these bills.
This is a good first step toward full recognition of the right to bear arms by all law-abiding adults.
- Florida Carry Authored and Strongly Supports These Bills
- PASSED HOUSE & SENATE UNANIMOUSLY!
- Victory! - Signed in to Law 4/13/2012
SB1732 - Uniform Knife and Weapons Act:
Senator Thad Altman (R- District 24) has filed SB 1732, a Knife and Defensive Arms Preemption bill developed by Florida Carry and our friends at Knife Rights. This bill does for Knives and defensive carry weapons what firearms preemption has done for the past 25-years. This will end a statewide patchwork of local laws that turn good people in to criminals as they cross county lines and city limits.
- Florida Carry Authored and Strongly Supports This Bill
- Died in Committee
HB5601 - Fee Reduction for License to Carry Concealed Weapons or Firearms:
Although Florida Carry stands opposed to license fees that serve only to deny the right to bear arms to those who can not afford the costs; we support this minor reduction in the restrictive and unnecessary tax levied on people who wish to carry concealed defensive arms for protection of themselves and their families.
- Florida Carry Supports This Bill
- Attached to Appropriations
- Victory! - Signed in to Law 4/17/2012
HB179 & SB356 - Banning the "Common Pocketknife" from Universities and Schools:
This bill would ban even the "common pocketknife", the type usually carried by Boy Scouts, at all universities and schools in Florida.
Update: Because of the effort prompted by Florida Carry shining a light on this legislation, HB179 bill has been withdrawn from consideration. Events like these show the power of the grassroots support that Florida Carry is proud to be a part of. Thank you for your support and effort in getting this bill removed before it had a chance to become a problem!
- Florida Carry Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB4015 & SB248 - Repealing Privacy of Firearm Owners:
These bills would remove the right of patients to keep their gun ownership information private and would allow health care providers to refuse medical treatment gun owners.
This bill would remove the following language from law:
- A health care provider or health care facility shall respect a patient's right to privacy...
- A health care provider or health care facility may not discriminate against a patient based solely upon the patient's exercise of the constitutional right to own and possess firearms or ammunition.
- A patient may decline to answer or provide any information regarding ownership of a firearm by the patient or a family member of the patient...
- Florida Carry Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB1087 & SB1340 - Bans Defensive Carry in Government Buildings and Child Care Facilities:
These bills would ban lawful defensive carry in all state and local government buildings and child care facilities statewide.
- Carry into meetings of governing bodies is already prohibited.
- There have several well documented shootings at these types of places, however none have been committed by lawful gun owners.
- In fact, it was a lawful concealed carrier who intervened to stop an active shooter at a school board meeting in Florida last year.
- The creation of more "gun-free zones" only bans law-abiding citizens their means of self-defense. It does absolutely nothing to deter a criminal.
- Florida Carry Strongly Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB1269 & SB1556 - Weakens State Preemption of Firearms Law:
These bills would allow state agencies, counties, and municipalities to ban lawful defensive carry in public buildings during any sporting event. This would allow them to completely ban shooting related events at public facilities!
Concealed carry is already unlawful during athletic events under state law. This bill is nothing more than an attempt to put a crack in Florida's Exceptional Firearms and Ammunition Uniformity Law. It would once again expose lawful gun owners to a patchwork of local laws that they have no reasonable way to keep up with.
- Carry into athletic events not related to firearms is already prohibited.
- The creation of more "gun-free zones" only keeps law-abiding citizens from defending themselves. It does absolutely nothing to deter a criminal.
- These bills are unnecessary and designed to whittle away at your rights.
- Florida Carry Strongly Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee