77zach
Regular Member
Coming back from Virginia where I CCed (carried comfortably) while educating the public by carrying openly. Pisse d afresh that I can't do so when I get home. Freakin' A.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Going for Open Carry in 2013
- Thread starter sniper1
- Start date
dudeman351
Regular Member
Hopefully if we get open carry they don't do something stupid like making no gun signs enforceable by law.
77zach
Regular Member
Studying the state elections in November, things aren't going to change that much so the chances are slim of a good OC bill. Too many neocons. Politics at the state level are more and more indistinguishable from the national level. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we're OCing next spring or summer.
KYGlockster
Activist Member
If everyone had your mentality we would have lost all of our rights. If we don't stand and fight for what we know is right, then we will lose everything by staying silent. We could have lost all of our freedoms in 1776 when our Founding Fathers decided they would send a Decleration of Independence to King George, but they knew standing up and fighting for our rights was better than slowly losing them all. When we trade safety for liberty we deserve neither, and by playing it safe and not standing for what we believe in, we deserve nothing. According to the Florida constitution everyone should be allowed to openly carry firearms without a permit or license to do so. The folks in Florida who would like their RIGHTS back need to press the legislature to rescind all legislation that has destroyed the rights of Floridians to openly carry deadly weapons. If you don't fight for these rights and make sure those in the legislature know what you want, then they will just take your rights away as they did in the 1987 and not think twice about doing so, and then you will not have to worry about losing rights because they will already be gone. If you have to pay and receive a license in order to exercise a "right," then it really isn't a "right" at all, but rather a privilege.
JeepSeller
Regular Member
Nevermind. I had a much longer rant typed out for most the day....but all I'm doing is spinning my wheels trying to talk some sense into people. And I realize it was a little too nasty.....so, here goes... When you're losing what tiny speed advantage that open carry gives due to a retention holster, I don't want to hear it. When you can no longer carry in your favorite places because that stupid no guns sign now makes it illegal, don't look at me, I'll just say I told you so.
I'm amazed at how quickly people forget the betrayal they felt a year ago when this same legislative process backfired and the retention holster and training amendment was published. Does anyone actually believe that this year will be any different? That the FSA won't push for those pesky retention holsters and training again, or worse? Does anyone actually buy that the Retail Federation won't push for wording that gives their silly sign weight of law?
Now, does anyone actually believe that the lobbyists who are selling this bill actually have the guts to say no and risk the votes that those concessions can bring in Tallahassee?
I'll say it one more time. Hopefully more clear. What I am opposed to is the trading of one single current freedom we enjoy today for open carry. I do not believe that would be a win. I believe that it would be a step backwards and that to me is unacceptable. Constitutional carry or nothing else in my book. Not this "I'll scratch your back if you'll let me do this" back-room wheeling and dealing of current freedoms.
I'm amazed at how quickly people forget the betrayal they felt a year ago when this same legislative process backfired and the retention holster and training amendment was published. Does anyone actually believe that this year will be any different? That the FSA won't push for those pesky retention holsters and training again, or worse? Does anyone actually buy that the Retail Federation won't push for wording that gives their silly sign weight of law?
Now, does anyone actually believe that the lobbyists who are selling this bill actually have the guts to say no and risk the votes that those concessions can bring in Tallahassee?
I'll say it one more time. Hopefully more clear. What I am opposed to is the trading of one single current freedom we enjoy today for open carry. I do not believe that would be a win. I believe that it would be a step backwards and that to me is unacceptable. Constitutional carry or nothing else in my book. Not this "I'll scratch your back if you'll let me do this" back-room wheeling and dealing of current freedoms.
Last edited:
Hi RadTek, Troll much?
You do realize that the opposition reads these forums (FCC and here), right? If they start asking for signs, it will have been you that gave them the idea to do it. Please quite wallpapering every gun forum on the internet with your unsubstantiated claims.
They did not even suggest it at any time during the legislative session in 2011 or after. In fact, the FRF said that they did not want to put up signs and alienate their gun owning customers. You can also cry that the "sky is falling" over amendments that never made it past the first committee, that were used to show that the FSA was negotiating in bad faith. But you just keep on telling yourself whatever it is you need to justify your own conspiracy theory about the evil "back room" where we trade souls with deals written in invisible ink and signed in baby blood.
:banghead:
I can't tell you what language the NRA will be pushing yet. But I can say this, Florida Carry will always work to expand and protect the carrying of arms by law-abiding and responsible adults in Florida.
JeepSeller
Regular Member
I suppose you need to sponsor this forum so you can silence the truth by having threads locked here as well. But, I can tell you I'm not the only one who feels the way I do. You really don't know who I am or who we are or what we are capable of doing or where we're willing to go to get this message out to the people who's freedoms you are gambling away through these so-called back room deals. I don't have to prove anything, at least not at this particular moment, all one needs to do is roll down about a year in this forum. There are dozens of threads that can be used to remind everyone of the betrayal to which I'm referring.
Do you deny that by your own admission that a deal was struck with the Florida Sheriff's Association to accept the retention language to "call their bluff" and secure their support for the open carry bill last year? Since the brief exposure language was not planned by your group, it's obvious that you don't control the legislative process in the way you would like the people here to believe. In fact, didn't you or one of your own even state that you can't control the process when you were criticized over the final outcome? How can you promise to protect current rights and freedoms when you can't even control the process that YOU started in Tallahassee?
If you can't control the process any better, please don't play bluffs and gamble with my rights. That's all I ask. I didn't give you permission to play those kind of games and take those kind of risks with my freedoms. If you can't control the process completely, then you are risking current freedoms when you put them on the table making deals with other groups. You cannot change that fact by sweeping it under the carpet or by arguing with me.
I support you in your endeavor to gain open carry through the court system. There's little risk to my current freedoms by going that angle. You aren't pulling out the chair for the opponents the same way you are doing through the legislative process and the deals you are willing to make with them. I don't believe you've picked the best representation of gun owners as your poster child for that case, but, I do believe it's the smartest angle to reclaim the right you are fighting to get back in Florida.
All some of us are really asking is that you don't play games with the current rights or freedoms we have in Florida. I really don't understand how that is so offensive to anyone. It's been offered to you in other forums. I'll offer it here. If you'll publicly promise no deals. I'll be quiet. I don't care if it's licensed open carry, that's at least a step forward from what Florida has now. But, no deals that negatively impact current rights, freedoms, or anything of the sort. If you're so dedicated to protecting those, I don't understand why that request generates so much drama or why you skirt that request with cryptic promises. Black and white, point blank. Will you accept any language for any amendments from anyone that may negatively impact current rights or freedoms, (bluff or not) to secure votes for your bill?
Do you deny that by your own admission that a deal was struck with the Florida Sheriff's Association to accept the retention language to "call their bluff" and secure their support for the open carry bill last year? Since the brief exposure language was not planned by your group, it's obvious that you don't control the legislative process in the way you would like the people here to believe. In fact, didn't you or one of your own even state that you can't control the process when you were criticized over the final outcome? How can you promise to protect current rights and freedoms when you can't even control the process that YOU started in Tallahassee?
If you can't control the process any better, please don't play bluffs and gamble with my rights. That's all I ask. I didn't give you permission to play those kind of games and take those kind of risks with my freedoms. If you can't control the process completely, then you are risking current freedoms when you put them on the table making deals with other groups. You cannot change that fact by sweeping it under the carpet or by arguing with me.
I support you in your endeavor to gain open carry through the court system. There's little risk to my current freedoms by going that angle. You aren't pulling out the chair for the opponents the same way you are doing through the legislative process and the deals you are willing to make with them. I don't believe you've picked the best representation of gun owners as your poster child for that case, but, I do believe it's the smartest angle to reclaim the right you are fighting to get back in Florida.
All some of us are really asking is that you don't play games with the current rights or freedoms we have in Florida. I really don't understand how that is so offensive to anyone. It's been offered to you in other forums. I'll offer it here. If you'll publicly promise no deals. I'll be quiet. I don't care if it's licensed open carry, that's at least a step forward from what Florida has now. But, no deals that negatively impact current rights, freedoms, or anything of the sort. If you're so dedicated to protecting those, I don't understand why that request generates so much drama or why you skirt that request with cryptic promises. Black and white, point blank. Will you accept any language for any amendments from anyone that may negatively impact current rights or freedoms, (bluff or not) to secure votes for your bill?
Last edited:
I've already answered these baseless charges;
HERE: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Fo...Secure-Right-to-Bear-Arms&p=445559#post445559
and
HERE: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Fo...Secure-Right-to-Bear-Arms&p=445580#post445580
As far as who WE are... We are Florida's largest Second Amendment Advocacy Organization with over 9,000 members and supporters. Only the NRA is larger.
We are the nearly 11,000 who have petitioned the legislature to legalize open carry.
We are the people who are getting out from behind our keyboards and letting our voice be heard in Tallahassee and beyond.
I am Sean Caranna, Executive Director of Florida Carry Inc., Founder of the modern Florida Open Carry Movement, combat veteran, husband, and a man bound by his sacred oath to defend the constitution.
There are a lot of people who know exactly what we who fight for the RIGHT to bear arms are capable of... We are capable of improving the right to carry in Florida and will not compromise that mission.
JeepSeller
Regular Member
You still refuse to address the specific concerns I raise. You've continued to dodge the real issue like a masterful politician through deflection and misdirection. You're learning quickly from your politician friends, I'll give you that.
Plain and simple. Are you willing to accept, endorse, write, etc. any amendments that further restrict CURRENT rights and or privileges as a concession to garner votes in Tallahassee for your open carry bill? In other words, will you again accept an amendment from the FSA that calls for retention holsters and training (or any other wording that restricts carry in any way) in a deal with them to get votes, bluff or not?
You seem awfully steeled at arguing the difference between a right and a privilege. Of that, I have not argued. Your misdirection, while tactful, won't work on me. Actually, what that does demonstrate to me are your priorities. It's obvious that your priority is focused solely on rights and not privileges. And, since you appear to regard only open carry as a right, one MUST be concerned about how you regard anything else, such as freedom to carry without retention holsters, freedom to ignore no guns signs..etc. or even the privilege to carry concealed as many people in Florida prefer.
My concern has always been protecting the current freedoms we enjoy in Florida today and avoiding shooting ourselves in the foot trying to win open carry. What you have failed to understand is that not everyone in Florida is willing to give up one single freedom to gain open carry, even though you might. That is not a statement that is detrimental to the open carry movement as you'd have people believe. It's simply a statement of fact I will not let you ignore.
The basis of my argument is that if you are willing to trade one single current freedom (be it right or privilege), that is unacceptable to some, myself included.
Now, dispense with the cryptic political double speak and answer my question with a simple yes or no.
Plain and simple. Are you willing to accept, endorse, write, etc. any amendments that further restrict CURRENT rights and or privileges as a concession to garner votes in Tallahassee for your open carry bill? In other words, will you again accept an amendment from the FSA that calls for retention holsters and training (or any other wording that restricts carry in any way) in a deal with them to get votes, bluff or not?
You seem awfully steeled at arguing the difference between a right and a privilege. Of that, I have not argued. Your misdirection, while tactful, won't work on me. Actually, what that does demonstrate to me are your priorities. It's obvious that your priority is focused solely on rights and not privileges. And, since you appear to regard only open carry as a right, one MUST be concerned about how you regard anything else, such as freedom to carry without retention holsters, freedom to ignore no guns signs..etc. or even the privilege to carry concealed as many people in Florida prefer.
My concern has always been protecting the current freedoms we enjoy in Florida today and avoiding shooting ourselves in the foot trying to win open carry. What you have failed to understand is that not everyone in Florida is willing to give up one single freedom to gain open carry, even though you might. That is not a statement that is detrimental to the open carry movement as you'd have people believe. It's simply a statement of fact I will not let you ignore.
The basis of my argument is that if you are willing to trade one single current freedom (be it right or privilege), that is unacceptable to some, myself included.
Now, dispense with the cryptic political double speak and answer my question with a simple yes or no.
"Blatant disregard of an unconstitutional law is a problem for some? Get up from that lunch counter, back of the bus for you, we don't accept your kind... Civil rights are secured by people who disregard unjust laws.
In this case, Dale had no intent to carry openly, he just did a bad job of concealing his gun properly. That should not be a CRIME.
Florida has a condition where the right to bear arms is being stifled by unconstitutional restrictions. Your concealed carry license is a privilege that the state can take away, tax, and restrict at will. Unconcealed carry is nearly completely banned. The ban is an unconstitutionally overly broad prior restraint on the right to bear arms.
The court must either strike down the unconcealed carry ban or declare that you have a constitutional right to a concealed carry license."
And that's the truth RedTek or jeepwrangler or whomever u are!
My God. I feel like I'm on the Facebook page reading people's posts. Lol.
(oh and stogie...err Sean, they should give us our money back too.)
What part of "rest assured that Florida Carry would never do anything to make it harder to carry a gun in the State of Florida." was hard for you to understand?
JeepSeller
Regular Member
You're still avoiding a direct answer to a direct question. But, I get it, I guess I don't blame you. It would probably be pretty bad to answer that question only to be caught making deals with the FSA again.
Let's look at this action request from 4/11 of last year. I've left it totally intact other than removing some email address information. We wouldn't want people sending out emails for an action report that is outdated. I borrowed from this thread. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?89128-Florida-carry-urgent-action-requested!
So, what we have here is an amendment to your bill that you did not want nor support. However, this unwanted amendment got passed, didn't it? It became the current wording of the statutes, right? You clearly do not have the control or power over the legislative process you claim.
You say you'd never do anything that would hurt gun carry in Florida, yet by your own admission, you cut a deal with the FSA asking them to support your bill. Then, an amendment was presented that would satisfy the FSA's calling for retention holsters, training and the most insulting of all, we would have display our ID in some form of badge holder.By your own admission, you have stated that you were only calling their bluff. but, by making that statement, yoy imply that you are holding the best hand, leading us to believe that you have enough control over the process as to kill any amendments or actions against the bill you dislike. The above debunks that notion. Fortunately, the FSA's amendment didn't go much further, but, as your sucker-punching brief exposure amendment mentioned above proves, the retention crap could have just as easily become the rule and you'd have had little control over the result.
I think you just go lucky last year in that we aren't carrying around retention holsters right now and wearing our stupid little ID badges.
dudeman351
Regular Member
Sean,
I was a member of Fl open carry on FB before I deleted my account. Let me say that some of us DO appriciate what y'all do. If it weren't for the economy and being as broke as I am right now I would donate. Keep up the good fight. And once again THANK YOU.
I was a member of Fl open carry on FB before I deleted my account. Let me say that some of us DO appriciate what y'all do. If it weren't for the economy and being as broke as I am right now I would donate. Keep up the good fight. And once again THANK YOU.
Watching the legislative process unfold is not for the faint of heart, particularly in Tallahassee. Sausage making is not suitable for all audiences; laws are no different, viewer discretion is advised.
Here's what we at Florida Carry did in the last legislative session:
HB463 & SB998 - Shall Issue Carry Licenses for Military & Vets:
Those who defend our country overseas should be able to defend themselves and their families at home. There have been too many incidences of violence against our troops who have just returned from overseas deployments and found themselves defenseless at home. Florida Carry authored legislation that will insure that our current troops and honorably discharged veterans can obtain a license to carry regardless of age or duty station. The bill will also require that fingerprint cards be accepted from military police and provost so that service members stationed overseas can complete their applications.
There are over 8,000 adult service members under the age of 21 living in the State of Florida. Countless more resident veterans and annual military visitors who will have their right the bear arms advanced by these bills.
This is a good first step toward full recognition of the right to bear arms by all law-abiding adults.
SB1732 - Uniform Knife and Weapons Act:
Senator Thad Altman (R- District 24) has filed SB 1732, a Knife and Defensive Arms Preemption bill developed by Florida Carry and our friends at Knife Rights. This bill does for Knives and defensive carry weapons what firearms preemption has done for the past 25-years. This will end a statewide patchwork of local laws that turn good people in to criminals as they cross county lines and city limits.
HB5601 - Fee Reduction for License to Carry Concealed Weapons or Firearms:
Although Florida Carry stands opposed to license fees that serve only to deny the right to bear arms to those who can not afford the costs; we support this minor reduction in the restrictive and unnecessary tax levied on people who wish to carry concealed defensive arms for protection of themselves and their families.
HB179 & SB356 - Banning the "Common Pocketknife" from Universities and Schools:
This bill would ban even the "common pocketknife", the type usually carried by Boy Scouts, at all universities and schools in Florida.
HB4015 & SB248 - Repealing Privacy of Firearm Owners:
These bills would remove the right of patients to keep their gun ownership information private and would allow health care providers to refuse medical treatment gun owners.
This bill would remove the following language from law:
HB1087 & SB1340 - Bans Defensive Carry in Government Buildings and Child Care Facilities:
These bills would ban lawful defensive carry in all state and local government buildings and child care facilities statewide.
HB1269 & SB1556 - Weakens State Preemption of Firearms Law:
These bills would allow state agencies, counties, and municipalities to ban lawful defensive carry in public buildings during any sporting event. This would allow them to completely ban shooting related events at public facilities!
Concealed carry is already unlawful during athletic events under state law. This bill is nothing more than an attempt to put a crack in Florida's Exceptional Firearms and Ammunition Uniformity Law. It would once again expose lawful gun owners to a patchwork of local laws that they have no reasonable way to keep up with.
Here's what we at Florida Carry did in the last legislative session:
HB463 & SB998 - Shall Issue Carry Licenses for Military & Vets:
Those who defend our country overseas should be able to defend themselves and their families at home. There have been too many incidences of violence against our troops who have just returned from overseas deployments and found themselves defenseless at home. Florida Carry authored legislation that will insure that our current troops and honorably discharged veterans can obtain a license to carry regardless of age or duty station. The bill will also require that fingerprint cards be accepted from military police and provost so that service members stationed overseas can complete their applications.
There are over 8,000 adult service members under the age of 21 living in the State of Florida. Countless more resident veterans and annual military visitors who will have their right the bear arms advanced by these bills.
This is a good first step toward full recognition of the right to bear arms by all law-abiding adults.
- Florida Carry Authored and Strongly Supports These Bills
- PASSED HOUSE & SENATE UNANIMOUSLY!
- Victory! - Signed in to Law 4/13/2012
SB1732 - Uniform Knife and Weapons Act:
Senator Thad Altman (R- District 24) has filed SB 1732, a Knife and Defensive Arms Preemption bill developed by Florida Carry and our friends at Knife Rights. This bill does for Knives and defensive carry weapons what firearms preemption has done for the past 25-years. This will end a statewide patchwork of local laws that turn good people in to criminals as they cross county lines and city limits.
- Florida Carry Authored and Strongly Supports This Bill
- Died in Committee
HB5601 - Fee Reduction for License to Carry Concealed Weapons or Firearms:
Although Florida Carry stands opposed to license fees that serve only to deny the right to bear arms to those who can not afford the costs; we support this minor reduction in the restrictive and unnecessary tax levied on people who wish to carry concealed defensive arms for protection of themselves and their families.
- Florida Carry Supports This Bill
- Attached to Appropriations
- Victory! - Signed in to Law 4/17/2012
HB179 & SB356 - Banning the "Common Pocketknife" from Universities and Schools:
This bill would ban even the "common pocketknife", the type usually carried by Boy Scouts, at all universities and schools in Florida.
- Florida Carry Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB4015 & SB248 - Repealing Privacy of Firearm Owners:
These bills would remove the right of patients to keep their gun ownership information private and would allow health care providers to refuse medical treatment gun owners.
This bill would remove the following language from law:
- A health care provider or health care facility shall respect a patient's right to privacy...
- A health care provider or health care facility may not discriminate against a patient based solely upon the patient's exercise of the constitutional right to own and possess firearms or ammunition.
- A patient may decline to answer or provide any information regarding ownership of a firearm by the patient or a family member of the patient...
- Florida Carry Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB1087 & SB1340 - Bans Defensive Carry in Government Buildings and Child Care Facilities:
These bills would ban lawful defensive carry in all state and local government buildings and child care facilities statewide.
- Carry into meetings of governing bodies is already prohibited.
- There have several well documented shootings at these types of places, however none have been committed by lawful gun owners.
- In fact, it was a lawful concealed carrier who intervened to stop an active shooter at a school board meeting in Florida last year.
- The creation of more "gun-free zones" only bans law-abiding citizens their means of self-defense. It does absolutely nothing to deter a criminal.
- Florida Carry Strongly Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
HB1269 & SB1556 - Weakens State Preemption of Firearms Law:
These bills would allow state agencies, counties, and municipalities to ban lawful defensive carry in public buildings during any sporting event. This would allow them to completely ban shooting related events at public facilities!
Concealed carry is already unlawful during athletic events under state law. This bill is nothing more than an attempt to put a crack in Florida's Exceptional Firearms and Ammunition Uniformity Law. It would once again expose lawful gun owners to a patchwork of local laws that they have no reasonable way to keep up with.
- Carry into athletic events not related to firearms is already prohibited.
- The creation of more "gun-free zones" only keeps law-abiding citizens from defending themselves. It does absolutely nothing to deter a criminal.
- These bills are unnecessary and designed to whittle away at your rights.
- Florida Carry Strongly Opposes These Bills.
- Victory! - Died in committee
Last edited:
Great job sir! I support the cause.
ADulay
Regular Member
Great work, Sean.
Proud to be a member of Florida Carry.
AD (full time open carry advocate)
Proud to be a member of Florida Carry.
AD (full time open carry advocate)
Mas49.56
Regular Member
http://inweekly.net/wordpress/?p=11474
OC 2013 caught the attention of my local Independence news rag. I don't know why he says the movie theater nutjob had body armor, I can find no evidence of this. All I saw was a cheap Blackhawk vest. Maybe polyester is armor to left wing reporters.
OC 2013 caught the attention of my local Independence news rag. I don't know why he says the movie theater nutjob had body armor, I can find no evidence of this. All I saw was a cheap Blackhawk vest. Maybe polyester is armor to left wing reporters.
Last edited:
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
This initial reports of the CO incident stated the whackjob was wearing armor. This later proved to not be the case.
edrolee
Regular Member
if there is anything i can do to help with getting OC here in FL (that is not money involved, unemployed here) i'd be only to glad to help
i moved here from NC the first of june and the thing i miss most is the ability to just put on my 1911 in my paddle holster and head out of the house
that was the fantastic thing about NC if you were legal to own a firearm you could OC with ZERO permits or fees
man i miss that
let me know if i can help
ed
davenport, FL
i moved here from NC the first of june and the thing i miss most is the ability to just put on my 1911 in my paddle holster and head out of the house
that was the fantastic thing about NC if you were legal to own a firearm you could OC with ZERO permits or fees
man i miss that
let me know if i can help
ed
davenport, FL