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Thread: Are you NoVA members tracking this one?

  1. #1
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    Are you NoVA members tracking this one?

    Believe this was the Hooter's shooting accident a couple weeks ago.

    Anyone know anything about his attorney?




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    Regular Member PaulX608's Avatar
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    I'd been wondering what came of that incident and had been meaning to call the court to find out the disposition details. Thanks for the case number, I'll try to attend the hearing and report back.

    I was going to suggest this thread merely be rolled into the original thread for continuity but can't seem to find it. OCDO search engine has never been the best.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulX608 View Post
    Based upon that profile, he would not be my first choice in a criminal defense situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Based upon that profile, he would not be my first choice in a criminal defense situation.
    I wonder what the accused does for a living; meaning, I wonder if the accused has sports or entertainment connections.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    I'm betting he has a family/friend connection to the lawyer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1 View Post
    I'd been wondering what came of that incident and had been meaning to call the court to find out the disposition details. Thanks for the case number, I'll try to attend the hearing and report back.

    I was going to suggest this thread merely be rolled into the original thread for continuity but can't seem to find it. OCDO search engine has never been the best.
    Deleted thread:
    http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...D-NoVA-Hooters

    CHILINVLN archived the post here:
    http://pdfcast.org/download/nova-hoo...e-incident.pdf
    Last edited by unrequited; 08-13-2012 at 04:28 AM.
    -Unrequited

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    Unrequited, one of your links pointed to a black hole and the other to an off-site archive.

    So what's the story here? Did VCDL's Executive Member Ed Levine delete the original thread under some ridiculous misconception that removing a theretofore series of civil posts without discussion (he certainly didn't contact me and I was the OP and I see him weekly) would somehow throw the media off the trail of a negligent discharge despite the presence of a local videocast? OTOH, as unrequited just showed, nothing dies on the web...the omnipresent WebCrawlers ensure that.

    Heck, even an OCer can have a brain fart and do something dumb. Rather than trying to act like it never happened by attempting to delete all references to the occurrence, we should treat the incident as an open-book teaching tool and use it to reinforce common-sense gun safety. For darn sure not give the antis an opportunity to label us as hypocritical...i.e., perfectly willing to discuss topics which show 2A supporters in a positive light but also perfectly willing to go to extraordinary lengths to hide topics which demonstrate we are just as fallible as any other slice of society.

    Am I annoyed? Damn straight!

    Actually, I didn't even know Ed was an OCDO admin monitor entrusted with the power of a site delete key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1 View Post
    Unrequited, one of your links pointed to a black hole and the other to an off-site archive.
    Yup, dunno the back story. I saw it on another forum, did some sleuthing, found links to the deleted thread, and by varying up google search terms, the pdf came up in the results. I don't know why the thread was deleted. I'm just as interested in this embarrassing incident as I am about when OC is non-eventful.
    -Unrequited

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    I know in the past, when there were ND's at the Dulles show, there was a push to hush it up as to not put the ability to hold gun shows in the Dulles expo at risk. Given the state of those shows in the last few years and the decline in quality vendors. . .i don't see the loss of that show as a negative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinChin View Post
    I know in the past, when there were ND's at the Dulles show, there was a push to hush it up as to not put the ability to hold gun shows in the Dulles expo at risk. Given the state of those shows in the last few years and the decline in quality vendors. . .i don't see the loss of that show as a negative.
    I haven't gone to a show there since 2007. With budsgunshop, midwayusa, shootersdiscount, sgammo and others, there's sadly no compelling reason to shop local anymore. NoVA Firearms has great service, and I have FFL'ed a bunch through them, but it's so so hard for local shops to competitively price, especially when you add in state sales tax, regardless of FFL fee. Not really on topic, but yeah, I agree, the Chantlily show only serves one purpose, and that's to gain exposure to our hobby to people who aren't already a part of it.
    -Unrequited

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1 View Post
    Unrequited, one of your links pointed to a black hole and the other to an off-site archive.

    So what's the story here? Did VCDL's Executive Member Ed Levine delete the original thread under some ridiculous misconception that removing a theretofore series of civil posts without discussion (he certainly didn't contact me and I was the OP and I see him weekly) would somehow throw the media off the trail of a negligent discharge despite the presence of a local videocast? OTOH, as unrequited just showed, nothing dies on the web...the omnipresent WebCrawlers ensure that.

    Heck, even an OCer can have a brain fart and do something dumb. Rather than trying to act like it never happened by attempting to delete all references to the occurrence, we should treat the incident as an open-book teaching tool and use it to reinforce common-sense gun safety. For darn sure not give the antis an opportunity to label us as hypocritical...i.e., perfectly willing to discuss topics which show 2A supporters in a positive light but also perfectly willing to go to extraordinary lengths to hide topics which demonstrate we are just as fallible as any other slice of society.

    Am I annoyed? Damn straight!

    Actually, I didn't even know Ed was an OCDO admin monitor entrusted with the power of a site delete key.
    private joke BobAsk me in person one day

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Bob Ask me in person one day
    Ask me in person too Bob.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Ask me in person too Bob.
    Good thinking Ed. You can sell him a T shirt then.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Good thinking Ed. You can sell him a T shirt then.
    What Don? You don't like my t-shirts?
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    What Don? You don't like my t-shirts?
    Why, I think they're very stylish Ed!
    Perhaps you could do the next run on leather vests.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinChin View Post
    I know in the past, when there were ND's at the Dulles show, there was a push to hush it up as to not put the ability to hold gun shows in the Dulles expo at risk. Given the state of those shows in the last few years and the decline in quality vendors. . .i don't see the loss of that show as a negative.
    As rediculous as it might be to try and steer this trainwwreck back on course -

    Could someone please explain to me how a ND at Hooters is related to the Dulles gunshow?

    Yes, I know that the guy went to the gunshow before he went to Hooters, and that any time there is six (or 2, or 378) degrees between any shooting and a gunshow the press is going to blame the gunshow. Just like any shooting within the same county as any school becomes a "school shooting". But that does not mean we should follow their line of - what's the word for the opposite of "reasoning"?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Ask me in person too Bob.
    Thanks, but no need, Ed. My in-box nearly filled up with folks anxious to pass on their tall tales and personality observations.

    P.S. OK, 'PN,' I'll pass on the shirt.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As rediculous as it might be to try and steer this trainwwreck back on course -

    Could someone please explain to me how a ND at Hooters is related to the Dulles gunshow?

    Yes, I know that the guy went to the gunshow before he went to Hooters, and that any time there is six (or 2, or 378) degrees between any shooting and a gunshow the press is going to blame the gunshow. Just like any shooting within the same county as any school becomes a "school shooting". But that does not mean we should follow their line of - what's the word for the opposite of "reasoning"?

    stay safe.
    Man went to the GS at Dulles Expo
    Man purchased handgun
    Man then went to Hooters, located across the commerce park after GS
    Man handled firearm in unsafe manner.
    Man caused firearm to discharge.
    Man inflicted injury to companion at table with said firearm.

    I grant you no direct correlation in this instance, but there is undeniable indirect correlation.

    I in no way mean to express guilt nor fault of the Dulles Expo center nor the venue which ran the event at the expo center. My comment was meant to highlight the caliber (pardon the pun) of the clientele which I’ve seen frequent the GS in the last few years. This factor in addition to the *constant* disregard to public safety displayed by said clientele (e.g. sweeping of vendors, sweeping of other patrons), coupled with the trend to have at least 1 or 2 ND’s per year related to this particular GS, coupled with the inexplicable and continued attendance of non-firearm vendors (e.g. guys selling coins, guys selling magazines, guys selling artwork of wolves and eagles, guys selling Nazi paraphernalia, guys selling cheap reproduction ninja swords, et al) as well as the low percentage of any true deals too be found as opposed to buying online. . .I intended to highlight how this most recent issue cemented to me, in my own estimation how the negatives outweigh the positives in continuing to support or provide revenue to this venue.

    Again, this recent incident (Hooters) occurred outside of the Expo Center and has no *direct* liability to their operation that I am aware of; however given this person came directly from the GS, it tells me that the level of patronage by the apparent “lowest common dominators” is still as prevalent as in previous shows. I do not want to be associated with an organization with such little regard for the safety of their customer base.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinChin View Post
    Man went to the GS at Dulles Expo
    Man purchased handgun
    Man then went to Hooters, located across the commerce park after GS
    Man handled firearm in unsafe manner.
    Man caused firearm to discharge.
    Man inflicted injury to companion at table with said firearm.

    I grant you no direct correlation in this instance, but there is undeniable indirect correlation.

    I in no way mean to express guilt nor fault of the Dulles Expo center nor the venue which ran the event at the expo center. My comment was meant to highlight the caliber (pardon the pun) of the clientele which I’ve seen frequent the GS in the last few years. This factor in addition to the *constant* disregard to public safety displayed by said clientele (e.g. sweeping of vendors, sweeping of other patrons), coupled with the trend to have at least 1 or 2 ND’s per year related to this particular GS, coupled with the inexplicable and continued attendance of non-firearm vendors (e.g. guys selling coins, guys selling magazines, guys selling artwork of wolves and eagles, guys selling Nazi paraphernalia, guys selling cheap reproduction ninja swords, et al) as well as the low percentage of any true deals too be found as opposed to buying online. . .I intended to highlight how this most recent issue cemented to me, in my own estimation how the negatives outweigh the positives in continuing to support or provide revenue to this venue.

    Again, this recent incident (Hooters) occurred outside of the Expo Center and has no *direct* liability to their operation that I am aware of; however given this person came directly from the GS, it tells me that the level of patronage by the apparent “lowest common dominators” is still as prevalent as in previous shows. I do not want to be associated with an organization with such little regard for the safety of their customer base.
    Keeping the threads straight is difficult sometimes Chin Chin.....but I recall someone mentioning that Hooters filled up with gunshow people. That certainly ties the two together. Apparently this Hooters is/was not anti either (As opposed to some) and I suspect that is in part, because of the increased gunshow business.

    I happen to agree about the quality of the shows but that's all over. Even Hillsboro has gone way downhill.

    I'm not sure one idiot with a new gun is indicative of the whole organization or all the patrons. But then again, one or two ND's a year is bad.

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    This thread sure has taken some twists and turns since I visited last. BTW, that archive of the thread didn't capture everything--I remember making at least one more post before the whole thing was so ingloriously deleted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1 View Post
    Thanks, but no need, Ed. My in-box nearly filled up with folks anxious to pass on their tall tales and personality observations.
    Would I be correct in assuming that the members who wrote you off line were supportive of the points made? If you'll be at the next Lobby Day, I'll try to get linked up and hear about those "tall tails and personality observations." Should be good for some yucks. Bet I can guess who the goat was also.

    Or, maybe I can make one of the Richmond OC dinners and show up early for the inside track. Sounds like a knowledgable group who tells it like it is.

    Probably time to lock this one and let it scroll off into oblivion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911 Enthusiast View Post
    Probably time to lock this one and let it scroll off into oblivion.
    Why? The point was that there was no thread to discuss updates and information.
    -Unrequited

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    Quote Originally Posted by unrequited View Post
    Why? The point was that there was no thread to discuss updates and information.
    Agree. No reason to close down a subject of interest as long as it's being updated periodically when more information becomes known. For example, there are varying stories about who was actually shot in the foot. Waitress? Another customer at the table? Hopefully someone can attend the hearing and provide more clarity.

    IMO, the first thread should never have been deleted to start with. It was certainly more germane to VA gun owners than several others I've seen here. I have no personal knowledge of who instigated the move to delete the thread and play ostrich with the incident but it was a poor decision.
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm not sure one idiot with a new gun is indicative of the whole organization or all the patrons. But then again, one or two ND's a year is bad.
    We seem to be having more ND's at shows around my part of Ohio...perhaps in part because of the newbie gun owners. Although the last two I know of were committed by the tableholders. They quietly refuse to follow gunshow rules that require them to unload carry pieces, then sometime thru the weekend they feel compelled to show those guns to other tableholders or attendees.

  25. #25
    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinChin View Post
    Man went to the GS at Dulles Expo
    Man purchased handgun
    Man then went to Hooters, located across the commerce park after GS
    Man handled firearm in unsafe manner.
    Man caused firearm to discharge.
    Man inflicted injury to companion at table with said firearm.
    Had he just purchased the gun?

    The Fairfax County Police report says he unintentionally discharged the handgun while reloading it.

    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/...2oneinjred.htm

    If he was in fact reloading (reloading not loading) his handgun in Hooters, this suggests to me he was carrying the gun before he went to the gun show and likely had to unload it and have it zip-tied before he entered the gun show.

    From another source:

    "According to police, "he had just left an event for which he had to unload his handgun" and decided to reload the gun in the restaurant."

    http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/2012/08...is-friend.html
    Last edited by BillB; 08-15-2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Add clarity

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