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Thread: Charges were droped for a Colorado Spring man

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    Charges were droped for a Colorado Spring man


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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    There ya go! haha nice, its a good article and points out the clearly poor training the CSPD has. i cannot belive it was higher ranking officers, id almost expect it from a rookie or a transfer from another state, but i sure as hell expect high ranking officers, ones in charge of other officers to know the laws, and act with respect instead of how every single officer on scene acted! As i said before, i hope that them dropping the charges does not stop you from holding them all accountable.

    Side question to someone that lives in Colorado springs, can someone do a FOIA for the information in the police reports, and the dispatch recordings, it could be interesting to see what there reasoning behind acting in such a way is, and since JR is wrapped up in this "case" id rather see a closer to springs outside party request the information as to not cause any issues. Umm Dates 7/21/2012 names here if you need:http://www.krdo.com/news/Mistake-in-...o/-/index.html not sure on time sorry! Maybe jthe88mike can help on time. i would request it but I'm not in springs so it could cause issues.
    Last edited by LoneEchoWolf; 08-11-2012 at 01:33 AM.
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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Anyone else surprised that at the headline of the story says "Gun charge dropped after CSPD mistake" instead of something more generic?
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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    Anyone else surprised that at the headline of the story says "Gun charge dropped after CSPD mistake" instead of something more generic?
    Hell im suprised it said Mistake at all. i was more expecting them to have it all wrong, as always.
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    While he is right on the legality of his open carry, there really isn't a situation where you benefit getting angry and arguing with the cops. Even if he goes to court etc for damages, that will work against him to clear his record. I've a suspicion he let his participation in the demonstration influence his behavior with the police over the carry issue. Subjects best left seperate.

    The real problem today is, you really can't clear your record when news on the internet gets parroted by every news stations/site in the country and logged forever on Google's servers. Even if you vacate the city records, everyone else has a virtual copy.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon View Post
    While he is right on the legality of his open carry, there really isn't a situation where you benefit getting angry and arguing with the cops. Even if he goes to court etc for damages, that will work against him to clear his record. I've a suspicion he let his participation in the demonstration influence his behavior with the police over the carry issue. Subjects best left seperate.

    Because he is right on the legality of his open carry, there really isn't a situation where the cops can possibly benefit for arresting someone for a perfectly legal act. I have been in this position. It is extremely hard to keep your cool when the ones who are supposed to know the law, because they are supposed to be enforcing it... HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE. I have quoted the statutes to officers before, they really don't like that, and still been issued the citation, still been arrested, still treated like a common thug.

    I think he handled himself remarkably well in this situation.

    I also don't really care whether it was pridefest, or eating ice cream sandwiches. Getting arrested for something that is not a crime would be what influences my behavior in the situation, not the ice cream sandwich.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I think we may need a new compendium of all the recent arrests-and-then-charges dropped incidents. There have been what, three? four? in the last two weeks. So many that I can't really keep them all straight.

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    They said that they'll think about updating their cheat sheet ... cops who don't know the law? I don't think anyone here finds this surprising. Cops who want to steal will be treated as thieves by some. And a 42 USC 1983 claim would likely fail unless this issue came up before with the same cops.

    See, all they need to do is write up cheat sheets that are wrong & then they are free to steal w/o fear of a civil suit...good plan.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-11-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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    I hope he sues the crap out of that city and bankrupts it.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They said that they'll think about updating their cheat sheet ... cops who don't know the law? I don't think anyone here finds this surprising. Cops who want to steal will be treated as thieves by some. And a 42 USC 1983 claim would likely fail unless this issue came up before with the same cops.

    See, all they need to do is write up cheat sheets that are wrong & then they are free to steal w/o fear of a civil suit...good plan.

    OK, cheat sheet covers cops for liability under 1983; what about the department under 42 USC 1985 (Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights) for sending it's officers out with cheat sheets designed to cause deprivation of rights and 42 USC 1986 (Action for neglect to prevent) they not only failed to prevent they CAUSED the deprivation of rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    OK, cheat sheet covers cops for liability under 1983; what about the department under 42 USC 1985 (Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights) for sending it's officers out with cheat sheets designed to cause deprivation of rights and 42 USC 1986 (Action for neglect to prevent) they not only failed to prevent they CAUSED the deprivation of rights.
    The cops will say the dept gave them cheat sheets, the dept. will say they made them up themselves. Boom, statute of limitations gone.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    OK, cheat sheet covers cops for liability under 1983; what about the department under 42 USC 1985 (Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights) for sending it's officers out with cheat sheets designed to cause deprivation of rights and 42 USC 1986 (Action for neglect to prevent) they not only failed to prevent they CAUSED the deprivation of rights.
    Cheat sheets do NOT cover cop/department/city liability for committing a tort at state level, or under 1983 in Federal Court. Cheat sheets are not a substitute for statutes, and the case can easily be made that negligence garnered conspiracy to deprive a citizen of his rights under color of law. At the least, whoever is ultimately responsible for unlawful cheat sheets is actionable. That is the chief, department and city. In this case, assuming he gets a lawyer, I think the guilty will jump at the chance to settle out of court.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It will be hard to claim "but but but, we had these cheat sheets that say....". When the law changed in 2003, they did not know that. It took until 2011 to rescind the ordinance (that was not rescinded), yeah, right. Then update the cheat sheet in 2012 after they get smacked down for being nitwits displaying their nitwittery for all to see.
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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Since this discussion is in two places:

    Extremely positive reporting of this incident on KOAA. Contrast this with Thornton's circling the wagons.

    88, go get 'em, but be kind, it looks like they're trying to right the wrong!

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    Last edited by O2HeN2; 08-14-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Just got the chance to watch the original video. FWIW, you should really take CSPD to the cleaners in court on this one. They f'd up big time and should not be allowed to walk away unscathed! Those "officers" were out of line... especially the black guy. I cannot believe that many high-ranking officers would not be aware of what they were doing incorrectly. This speaks volumes to the culture of CSPD. That culture needs to change and a big fat lawsuit is just the thing to get that ball rolling!

    Best of luck pursuing this and keep us updated as you are able to do so.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Everybody gets little things wrong, it's a fact of life.
    The police should pay no more penalty for not following a law that was changed almost a decade ago than a citizen would for breaking a law that was passed back in the 1990's.

    Oh... err, umm...

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    Regular Member Scotsman's Avatar
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    Dude! You were on the news! I just saw the report on Fox 31! Seems like Fox soft-shoe'd the story but still reported that CSPD f'd up. I can't wait to see how this ends!
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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    I would think them admitting they were wrong and violated your rights cannot help them in court, givin they are trying to do the right thing now that they knew they were wrong, the problem is they should have knew in the first place with 5 or more high ranking officers on scene. maybe there lawyer should tell them to keep there mouths shut. You see why we said to keep quiet right! because them openeing there mouth seemed to hurt them in your case. Hope that it helps you out! Stay Safe!
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