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Thread: Apparently it really IS the gun's fault...

  1. #1
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Apparently it really IS the gun's fault...

    Hi, my name is pikespeakmtnman and I'm a gun owner...

    http://www.koaa.com/news/doctors-tar...ocial-disease/

    Give me a freaking break
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    it isn't enough to tackle gun violence by focusing solely on the people doing the shooting
    Why not?
    Don't we focus on the driver in order to stop DUI?
    We don't try to change the design of cars.

    About 260 million to 300 million firearms are owned by civilians in the United States; about one-third of American homes have one
    And yet, so very few of them are used in crimes.
    Almost like there's not really a problem.

    Unlike almost all other consumer products, there is no national product safety oversight of firearms
    Lie.

    What makes someone more likely to shoot, or someone more likely to be a victim.
    One recent study found firearm owners were more likely than those with no firearms at home to binge drink or to drink and drive, and other research has tied alcohol and gun violence
    I'd like to see that study, & especially the raw data.

    Which firearms are most dangerous and why. Manufacturers could be pressured to fix design defects that let guns go off accidentally, and to add technology that allows only the owner of the gun to fire it...
    Bans on assault weapons and multiple magazines that allow rapid and repeat firing are other possible steps.
    The first part I agree with.
    The last is nonsensical. The AWB didn't reduce the rate of violent crime, & automatics are so rarely used in crimes as to say that they never are. How could they prevent someone from carrying a backup magazine? (And why would they want to do that? If one jams, how do you defend against an attack, or multiple attackers?)

    "Environmental" risk factors: What conditions allow or contribute to shootings.
    Gun shops must do background checks and refuse to sell firearms to people convicted of felonies or domestic violence misdemeanors, but those convicted of other violent misdemeanors can buy whatever they want.
    The rules also don't apply to private sales, which one study estimates as 40 percent of the market.
    Conditions that contribute to shootings? Being unarmed. Being in a criminal empowerment zone.
    And to say that the rules don't apply to private sales is wrong. They can be ignored, but they still apply.

    Gun ownership - a precursor to gun violence - can spread "much like an infectious disease circulates"
    Oh good gravy! Comparing exercising a protected civil right to a disease?!

    "There's sort of a contagion phenomenon" after a shooting, where people feel they need to have a gun for protection or retaliation
    Well, duh!
    People are reminded that they're vulnerable, & they don't like being vulnerable, so they do something about it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
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    I say let the gun control activists have MD, CA, and IL and let them ban guns. We will see just how much their firearm crime rate drops...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  4. #4
    Regular Member sonofagun's Avatar
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    Opinions like that always make me laugh... nervously, that there are people who actually believe the regurgitated gun-ban spew.
    Anyway, from guncite.com, David Kopel, and this was quite a few years ago (when FL only had 300k permit holders!), but always good to see hard numbers for facts instead of just making up whatever suites your team. Guncite.com
    "What we can say with some confidence is that allowing more people to carry guns does not cause an increase in crime. In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit." ("More Permits Mean Less Crime..." Los Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5)
    And from the Wintery Knight blog A couple snippets from a Fox News article about crime statistics after "Heller."
    ...Similarly, in the year after the 2008 “Heller” decision, the murder rate fell two-and-a-half times faster in Washington than in the rest of the country. ... If you compare the first six months of this year to the first six months of 2008, the same time immediately preceding the Supreme Court’s late June “Heller” decision, murders have now fallen by thirty-four percent.
    This all seems quite contrary to "Gun ownership - a precursor to gun violence - can spread 'much like an infectious disease circulates,'" when in fact it appears that gun owners take their responsibility so seriously that they become better citizens (or probably more accurately, were already better citizens, but guns are a way to 'describe' this set of citizens), and with these law abiding gun owners, their surrounding city and state reaps the benefits of dramatically reduced crime without additional spending for more LEO's, drones, CCTV, etc.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    I tell em to come up with a real plan that disarms the BGs first. Crickets.
    “Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

    Plato knew this yet today's antis still don't get it!

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  6. #6
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine Expat View Post
    I tell em to come up with a real plan that disarms the BGs first. Crickets.
    Yeah, and quit turning the BGs loose and putting them back in our laps. Instead of new gun laws, fix the laws and the system you have now. Quit slapping these dips@#t's wrists and actually make them pay for the crimes they commit. They want the law abiding citizens to give up more, while the BGs plea bargain for less.
    watch your top knot !

  7. #7
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    Yeah, and quit turning the BGs loose and putting them back in our laps. Instead of new gun laws, fix the laws and the system you have now. Quit slapping these dips@#t's wrists and actually make them pay for the crimes they commit. They want the law abiding citizens to give up more, while the BGs plea bargain for less.
    You know how that goes Moosejaw, somebody gets caught waiving a gun in a liquor store and gets three years.

    You and I walk into the wrong building with our properly carried firearm and get seven.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    Yeah, and quit turning the BGs loose and putting them back in our laps. Instead of new gun laws, fix the laws and the system you have now. Quit slapping these dips@#t's wrists and actually make them pay for the crimes they commit. They want the law abiding citizens to give up more, while the BGs plea bargain for less.
    Exactly!

    I have never understood the insight of the modern day liberal! They want to make it impossible for a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN to obtain a firearm, but they want to get the criminal that USES THE FIREARMS IN CRIMES out of prison as quickly as possible! This way of thinking is why our country is getting screwed as we speak!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 08-12-2012 at 12:13 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  9. #9
    Regular Member JohnMoses's Avatar
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    I'm moving to Nevada and plan to OC every day. I'm sick of this liberal utopia called Illinois.

  10. #10
    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Exactly!

    I have never understood the insight of the modern day liberal! They want to make it impossible for a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN to obtain a firearm, but they want to get the criminal that USES THE FIREARMS IN CRIMES out of prison as quickly as possible! This way of thinking is why our country is getting screwed as we speak!
    Bans work! If the law says no guns then there shall be no guns available whatsoever. Hence no gun crime. It will work just like laws prohibiting things such as cocaine and weed. When was the last time you saw an episode of cops where someone was busted with illegal drugs??? These people are so dense its scary...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  11. #11
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMoses View Post
    I'm moving to Nevada and plan to OC every day. I'm sick of this liberal utopia called Illinois.
    Kentucky is a whole lot closer. We are a free state also.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Every....single.....statement in this "article" is complete B.S.

    I love how they include an example from 1997 of a CCW holder who's weapon fell out of her purse and injured two people. (Had to include something dangerous about CCW holders!...... from over a decade ago!) Why didn't they include any examples of defensive gun use?

    My absolute FAVORITE line:

    Gun ownership - a precursor to gun violence - can spread "much like an infectious disease circulates," said Daniel Webster, a health policy expert and co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.
    HA! Let me get this straight: In the same article that they point out that over 200 - 300 million guns are owned in the U.S......they also state that GUN OWNERSHIP is a "precursor" to gun violence!

    HA! (again) IF SO.....WHERE ARE THE 200 - 300 MILLION SHOOTINGS THAT WOULD BE THE INEVITABLE RESULT IF THIS WERE TRUE?

    If guns cause crime....where are the 200 - 300 million shootings that would be CAUSED by all those guns being owned?

    Pen ownership - a precursor to forgery.
    Owning a swimming pool - a precursor to drowning.
    Posessing a steak knife - a precursor to stabbings.
    Holding a spoon - a precursor of obesity.
    Buying a baseball bat - a precursor to bludgeoning.
    Filching the wife's pantyhose - a precursor to strangling hookers.
    Having a penis - a precursor to rape.
    Buying a new car - a precursor to D.U.I.
    Owning a computer - a precursor to internet fraud.
    Wearing a ski-mask - a precursor to bank robbery.

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Filching the wife's pantyhose - a precursor to strangling hookers.
    ....or cross dressing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member Belle_Starr's Avatar
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    I noticed that when there is a shooting, everyone and their uncle has to come out of the wood work to attempt to explain why it happened, why the shooter felt he had to take so many people out, or if he took them out and himself. Paranoia sets in and the masses point fingers at those who own and carry a gun. We all must be bad people, it is the gun's fault...no no no don't dare tell them that it was only the tool that the psycho chose to use to take out as many as possible. It couldn't possibly be the person is just bat guano crazy! And if he is found crazy, we need to try to understand him...

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If it's the gun's fault why are we even bothering to put on trial the killers, I mean those controlled by the gun. Put the gun on the stand.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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