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Thread: Legal definition of school / 1000 foot Law

  1. #1
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    Legal definition of school / 1000 foot Law

    Hi all,

    What is the legal definition of a school as in pertains to the 1000 foot rule?

    Here's why I'm asking... I frequent the Tokyo Joes at 120th and Huron in Westminister. There are several possible schools in the area ( west of Toyko Joes off 120th)

    - Colorado Technical University

    - DeVry University

    - Conerstone Christain Academy ( or for that matter any school that is part of a church)

    Could any of these be considered a school under the federal law?

    Also, my understanding is that the law doesn't apply if you are "just passing by" in a vehicle. Is this correct?

    Can anyone provide the actual USC covering this law/act?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    18USC922 (q) (2)

    I'm still looking to find the part of the US Code that defines "school zone", but it's the property on which a grade 1-12 school sits (K-12 on tribal lands) + 1000' (apx. 3 blocks, 1/5 of a mile) from the edge of the property in all directions.

    So the universities are NOT included, but your car on the street in front of the high school is.
    As you read the law (below) you'll notice that when you're on private property you're exempt.
    If you have a license from that state, you're exempt.
    If it's unloaded & in a locked case, you're exempt.

    Some states have more stringent laws, so search your state code.
    (For example, WI says there's a difference between the 1000' magical bubble and the grounds/buildings of the school.)

    Notice also the underlined clause - I can't recall any other law with such an "out". So never go looking for schools on Google maps. Part of the elements of the crime is that the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you knew or reasonably should have known you were within 3 blocks of a school.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    18USC922 (q) (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is—
    . . . . . (I) not loaded; and
    . . . . . (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 08-12-2012 at 04:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Also, the search feature is your friend.
    Here's a thread I found in the law library forum:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...7-School-Zones

    And other threads with related information:
    http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...es-Act-of-1995

    Here: 18USC921 (25)
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921
    defines "school zone"

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    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    If you have a CO CHP you are exempted from the 1000 ft rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Also, the search feature is your friend.
    Here's a thread I found in the law library forum:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...7-School-Zones

    And other threads with related information:
    http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...es-Act-of-1995

    Here: 18USC921 (25)
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921
    defines "school zone"
    Thank you. I will check them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    Notice also the underlined clause - I can't recall any other law with such an "out". So never go looking for schools on Google maps. Part of the elements of the crime is that the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you knew or reasonably should have known you were within 3 blocks of a school.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    18USC922 (q) (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    .
    Thank you for your response. It provided the answers I was looking for.

    I must say, however, that I strongly disagree with your statement quoted above.

    It is the responsibility of the armed citizen to know the laws related to the carry of firearms, as well as when they might be in violation of them. this would include the location of school zones (while it might be unreasonable to expect one to know where every school is in a large metro area, such as Milwaukee or Denver, it is not unreasonable, and should be expected, for them to know the locations of schools in their neighborhoods as well as along routes they frequently travel.

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    Just want to point out, in Colorado your vehicle is your own private property and extension of your home. As such, you can legally carry concealed or open in your vehicle no matter where you are in Colorado. As long as you are in control of the vehicle, you are legal to carry. If you exit the vehicle and leave it on school grounds, you are required to store the firearm in a locked compartment in the vehicle. Compartment is not defined. I'm not sure which CRS it is, but I'm sure someone can back me up.

    As for the reasonable belief, it is too open for interpretation for me. I don't prowl areas I will be to check for schools, and if I am going to a store or any other private business (not just walking down the street) if I can't see a k-12 school, I don't stress about what's hiding through the trees. Generally, school zone speed limits are good signs that there is a school nearby. As are the signs with the adult and child crossing. If you are that worried about it, a concealed carry permit will be in order so you don't have to stress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Just want to point out, in Colorado your vehicle is your own private property and extension of your home. As such, you can legally carry concealed or open in your vehicle no matter where you are in Colorado.
    No. If you're you're on school grounds and in possession of a CHP, you may be in possession of a firearm, provided it's secured in a compartment in your vehicle.
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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    No. If you're you're on school grounds and in possession of a CHP, you may be in possession of a firearm, provided it's secured in a compartment in your vehicle.
    Since, I know you started the statement with "no," but I think the rest of what you said agrees...?? I'm lost.

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    It is my understanding that Federal Law trumps state law. if this is the case, then you would be ok under The state law that allows the carry of firearms in a vehcle, but NOT under the federal law.) This would apply to OC only.

    There is a state law that prohibits open carry on school grounds, but does not apply to the 1000 foot zone.

    Another question is what is the meaning of "private property" as it applys to the federal law? Again, anything in the state laws would not apply to the federal law. There is no definition of private property in 18USC921, which is the section of federal law that defines school and school zone.

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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    Plus you might want to look up the Students for Concealed Carry.

    Information can be found here: http://gunowners.wordpress.com/2012/...-the-children/

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Since, I know you started the statement with "no," but I think the rest of what you said agrees...?? I'm lost.
    The way I read it, you cannot carry a firearm onto school property in your car unless you have a CHP. If you do not have a CHP, you cannot carry a firearm onto school property at all, even in your car. It is the CHP that allows you to have the gun in your car while on school property.

    At least that's the way I read the statutes.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 08-15-2012 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveH2210 View Post
    Hi all,

    What is the legal definition of a school as in pertains to the 1000 foot rule?

    Here's why I'm asking... I frequent the Tokyo Joes at 120th and Huron in Westminister. There are several possible schools in the area ( west of Toyko Joes off 120th)

    - Colorado Technical University

    - DeVry University

    - Conerstone Christain Academy ( or for that matter any school that is part of a church)

    Could any of these be considered a school under the federal law?

    Also, my understanding is that the law doesn't apply if you are "just passing by" in a vehicle. Is this correct?

    Can anyone provide the actual USC covering this law/act?

    Thanks.
    2 of those schools are colleges, and with a concealed carry permit, you can carry as close to them as you want. Matter of fact, Colorado Supreme Court ruled that you can carry in colleges with a permit.

    The federal GFSZA says you cannot have a loaded gun within 1000 feet of a school unless it is locked in your car. However, If you have a permit you can carry within 1000 feet but not onto the actual school property.
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 08-15-2012 at 07:23 PM.

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    Legal definition of school / 1000 foot Law

    The federal GFSZA only applies to grade K through 12.
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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    The way I read it, you cannot carry a firearm onto school property in your car unless you have a CHP. If you do not have a CHP, you cannot carry a firearm onto school property at all, even in your car. It is the CHP that allows you to have the gun in your car while on school property.

    At least that's the way I read the statutes.
    There's 2 CRS that cover handguns in cars on school property...one for those with a CHP, and one for those without.

    Basically, 18--12-214 says that a CHP holder needs only to put his gun in a compartment (such as a glove box or cneter console) and lock the vehicle (but the compartment doesn't have to be locked).

    18-12-105 says that anyone not in possession of a CHP can still have his handgun on school parking lot if the gun is unloaded and stays in the vehicle, nothing mentioned about compartments or locking, so simply stashed out of sight would suffice (or even in sight would technically be legal, but not smart)
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    There's 2 CRS that cover handguns in cars on school property...one for those with a CHP, and one for those without.

    Basically, 18--12-214 says that a CHP holder needs only to put his gun in a compartment (such as a glove box or cneter console) and lock the vehicle (but the compartment doesn't have to be locked).

    18-12-105 says that anyone not in possession of a CHP can still have his handgun on school parking lot if the gun is unloaded and stays in the vehicle, nothing mentioned about compartments or locking, so simply stashed out of sight would suffice (or even in sight would technically be legal, but not smart)
    I read through the CRS's. Government is stupid. LOL! Talk about confusing. You can carry a gun in your car in the open as long as it's unloaded but if you load it you have to hide it. Basically. Talk about stupid.

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