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Thread: Gun Owner not welcome at Tobacco Company

  1. #1
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Gun Owner not welcome at Tobacco Company

    Unfortunately I am currently enjoying good food and music here. When I stepped outside to get fresh air I noticed this at the front door. Doesn't look like I will be coming here again.


  2. #2
    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    It should read:

    "We prefer to provide our patrons with a self-defense free zone. Please feel free to pray in the event of something happening that we are not prepared, insured, or armed to control. Call 911 if bullets start flying and please enjoy your stay!"
    Last edited by The Airframer; 08-12-2012 at 09:35 PM. Reason: OP Sign Below
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

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    Really? Tobacco company that had killed millions with their smokes? Worried about a couple of people? What a lark.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Consider the city's pressure on the businesses in the bottom, I'm surprised everything isn't posted.

    But what the hell, they do allow active LE to carry so they aren't 100% anti.

    I know, I know, you don't understand, but some readers do

  5. #5
    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Really? Tobacco company that had killed millions with their smokes? Worried about a couple of people? What a lark.
    Before you go asking for cites, just ask yourself how many people have died as a result of lung cancer vs gun shot wounds. I know the numbers will consume you.

    Smoking cigarettes is legal and so is carrying a firearm.

    Apples and oranges my friend.
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Airframer View Post
    Before you go asking for cites, just ask yourself how many people have died as a result of lung cancer vs gun shot wounds. I know the numbers will consume you.

    Smoking cigarettes is legal and so is carrying a firearm.

    Apples and oranges my friend.
    Its call hypocrisy. thats all

  7. #7
    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Its call hypocrisy. thats all

    Agreed. Hypocrites should be forced to stand beside traitors.

    No difference through my eyes.
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

  8. #8
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Email to General Manager Rick Poole (rickpoole@dinetcr.com)

    Good Evening Mr. Poole.

    I just got home from enjoying a nice relaxing evening at your establishment. The tenderloin sliders were amazing and the music made for a very relaxing way to mentally prepare for the work week. I always enjoy the service and classy atmosphere of your restaurant. However tonight when I walked outside to have a cigarette I was very disappointed to see the no gun sign by your front door. I do not feel safe in places that share the same no gun policies as those places that recently had shootings. Obviously the only people that will adhere to your policy will be people who respect rules. If, God forbid, something similar were to happen in your restaurant there would be nobody with the tools to stop it. People who have evil intent in mind truly couldn't care less about what you post on your door. They will not take the time to read everything at the entrance of your restaurant before rushing in, will never notice that extremely small sign, and if they do notice it they will not then think to themselves 'Aw shucks. I gotta shoot up somewhere else now'.

    I will say that I completely respect your right to ban the lawful carry of firearms in your establishment. I support that right 100% and will always fight tooth and nail for your right to put that sign on that front door. However I am disappointed in the danger that your restaurant now poses. For the sake of preventing potential misunderstandings in the future I will be happy to warn gun owners throughout the city and the state that you prefer that they not dine in your restaurant.

    I hope that you are able to reconsider your dangerous policy and once again welcome the growing number of Virginia gun owners back in your restaurant to enjoy your great menu.

    Thank you for your time and take care.

    Sincerely,

    Chris Richardson

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    Regular Member The Airframer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    People who have evil intent in mind truly couldn't care less about what you post on your door. They will not take the time to read everything at the entrance of your restaurant before rushing in, will never notice that extremely small sign, and if they do notice it they will not then think to themselves 'Aw shucks. I gotta shoot up somewhere else now'.

    I truly believe this type of sign is read clearly by and attracts the mass murderer.

    Would a mass murderer chose a pro-OC event to open fire on where citizens are allowed and encouraged to exercise their God given right to self defense? i.e. NRA event/OC meet and greet? I DARE THEM!

    They hunt for unarmed fish in a barrel-- this sign is honey in a camp ground where campers expect no bears.
    It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it...

  10. #10
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    Good Evening Mr. Poole.

    I just got home from enjoying a nice relaxing evening at your establishment. The tenderloin sliders were amazing and the music made for a very relaxing way to mentally prepare for the work week. I always enjoy the service and classy atmosphere of your restaurant. However tonight when I walked outside to have a cigarette I was very disappointed to see the no gun sign by your front door. I do not feel safe in places that share the same no gun policies as those places that recently had shootings. Obviously the only people that will adhere to your policy will be people who respect rules. If, God forbid, something similar were to happen in your restaurant there would be nobody with the tools to stop it. People who have evil intent in mind truly couldn't care less about what you post on your door. They will not take the time to read everything at the entrance of your restaurant before rushing in, will never notice that extremely small sign, and if they do notice it they will not then think to themselves 'Aw shucks. I gotta shoot up somewhere else now'.

    I will say that I completely respect your right to ban the lawful carry of firearms in your establishment. I support that right 100% and will always fight tooth and nail for your right to put that sign on that front door. However I am disappointed in the danger that your restaurant now poses. For the sake of preventing potential misunderstandings in the future I will be happy to warn gun owners throughout the city and the state that you prefer that they not dine in your restaurant.

    I hope that you are able to reconsider your dangerous policy and once again welcome the growing number of Virginia gun owners back in your restaurant to enjoy your great menu.

    Thank you for your time and take care.

    Sincerely,

    Chris Richardson
    Nice. I like it.

    I don't know this restaurant personally, but if there's a direct competitor nearby, a copy of a receipt showing money spent with the competitor could be included with any follow-up correspondence. I think it helps emphasize the point that his decision, which we all agree is his to make, may not be the ideal business case.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    Good Evening Mr. Poole.

    I just got home from enjoying a nice relaxing evening at your establishment. The tenderloin sliders were amazing and the music made for a very relaxing way to mentally prepare for the work week. I always enjoy the service and classy atmosphere of your restaurant. However tonight when I walked outside to have a cigarette I was very disappointed to see the no gun sign by your front door. I do not feel safe in places that share the same no gun policies as those places that recently had shootings. Obviously the only people that will adhere to your policy will be people who respect rules. If, God forbid, something similar were to happen in your restaurant there would be nobody with the tools to stop it. People who have evil intent in mind truly couldn't care less about what you post on your door. They will not take the time to read everything at the entrance of your restaurant before rushing in, will never notice that extremely small sign, and if they do notice it they will not then think to themselves 'Aw shucks. I gotta shoot up somewhere else now'.

    I will say that I completely respect your right to ban the lawful carry of firearms in your establishment. I support that right 100% and will always fight tooth and nail for your right to put that sign on that front door. However I am disappointed in the danger that your restaurant now poses. For the sake of preventing potential misunderstandings in the future I will be happy to warn gun owners throughout the city and the state that you prefer that they not dine in your restaurant.

    I hope that you are able to reconsider your dangerous policy and once again welcome the growing number of Virginia gun owners back in your restaurant to enjoy your great menu.

    Thank you for your time and take care.

    Sincerely,

    Chris Richardson
    Good to write, not criticizing you at all for that. By far, most do not take the time.

    My preference would be a bit more direct:

    "Please explain to me how your sign does anything, ANY thing at ALL, to accomplish the stated goal of providing a gun-free environment? Quite to the contrary, as the study of virtually all mass shootings has taught us, such signs literally invite mass murderers into your business, since they are assured that they will encounter no resistance."

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Good to write, not criticizing you at all for that. By far, most do not take the time.

    My preference would be a bit more direct:

    "Please explain to me how your sign does anything, ANY thing at ALL, to accomplish the stated goal of providing a gun-free environment? Quite to the contrary, as the study of virtually all mass shootings has taught us, such signs literally invite mass murderers into your business, since they are assured that they will encounter no resistance."

    TFred
    I agree ... I would not discuss his right to disallow ... after all, that puts YOU at risk, not him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Read that sign again. It talks about preferences and rights. Nowhere does it state that you CAN'T carry there.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Read that sign again. It talks about preferences and rights. Nowhere does it state that you CAN'T carry there.
    The intent is clear. Nothing will be served by parsing words to seek some imagined loophole. In fact, getting caught playing that game will probably just make it harder everywhere else when the word goes around that someone tried to play word games. And word will get around.

    No doubt taking the high road puts us behind the proverbial eitht ball. That sucks. But it's either that or deal with an even harder stance against us. Obviously, your mileage varies.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Done with class, as every OC'er is expected to do

    To richarcm - You have done it with class. Your statement that - I will respect and fight for your right to put up a sign - shows tremendous patriotism. If many, many people (OC'ers and non gun owners) stop going there, I honestly believe that the store will change its policy. It may take time, but that is the best way. Kudos! Drmark's suggestion is excellent. TFred's suggestion is a little harsh (however, it's how most of us think.) Skidmark's point about intent is, as usual, right on the money.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    To richarcm - You have done it with class. Your statement that - I will respect and fight for your right to put up a sign - shows tremendous patriotism. If many, many people (OC'ers and non gun owners) stop going there, I honestly believe that the store will change its policy. It may take time, but that is the best way. Kudos! Drmark's suggestion is excellent. TFred's suggestion is a little harsh (however, it's how most of us think.) Skidmark's point about intent is, as usual, right on the money.
    It was a nice, well written letter, but it was like a shiny new car without an engine. It ain't going anywhere. They will ignore it except for possibly a canned response, BUT.....at least Richarm did something!

    The problem is a lot deeper than the Tobacco Company. More on that on Thursday.

    I agree 90% with Skidmark. Word games, which we are famous for, are meaningless.

    TFred isn't being harsh, he's actually being a little mild.

    Right now there are bigger fish to fry.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-13-2012 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It was a nice, well written letter, but it was like a shiny new car without an engine.
    I agree because Rick is the GM (who is the owner? beats me!).. oddly enough their name is not registered as a business under that name....


    Registrant:
    The Tobacco Company Restaurant
    1201 E. Cary Street
    Richmond, Virginia 23219
    United States

    Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
    Domain Name: THETOBACCOCOMPANY.COM
    Created on: 30-Nov-98
    Expires on: 29-Nov-16
    Last Updated on: 26-May-11

    Administrative Contact:
    Jackson, Chris cjackson@webdreamsdesigns.com
    WebDreams Designs
    6933 Turnage Lane
    Mechanicsville, Virginia 23111
    United States
    8044276096 Fax -- 8044276096

    Technical Contact:
    Jackson, Chris cjackson@webdreamsdesigns.com
    WebDreams Designs, LLC
    6933 Turnage Lane
    Mechanicsville, Virginia 23111
    United States
    8044276096 Fax -- 8044276096

    Domain servers in listed order:
    NS9.PSEKHOSTING.COM
    NS10.PSEKHOSTING.COM


    A whois search revealed the information above .. not much ... webdreams designs is actually a registered LLC

    It could be that the tobacco company restaurant is a private company ... no LLC/S/or Corp. designation ... this would lead one to consider threatening a lawsuit to force them to allow carry. The company could win, they may lose .. either way a lawsuit will cost them $$$. So, how much are they opposed to carry? How much really, in dollars and cents?

    I can see a case moving forward (or hopeful) in respect to this aspect. The 2nd amendment is different than the first as the second relates to your self preservation ... if companies wish to remove your ability to defend yourself then they should be obligated to provide and equal level of protection.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-13-2012 at 11:07 AM.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    In a land before the sign maybe - didn't see any sign.

    During the last GA session, 7 or 8 of us went to the Tobacco Company for a late lunch, walked in the main doors, sat at the round table at the end of the bar, ate and talked for well over an hour w/o any problems. All of us were very visibly OCing, even talked with one of the servers about the visual deterrent and educational value thereof.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I gotta say that is surprising for an industry that is being legislated out of business.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Why "leo" are they better?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  21. #21
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I gotta say that is surprising for an industry that is being legislated out of business.
    Restaurants are being legislated out of business ?

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    The guy to get to at the Tobacco Company is David Campbell. He runs most the show and very Liberal. His office is around the corner on S. 12th Street.

  23. #23
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I gotta say that is surprising for an industry that is being legislated out of business.
    The government is not going to let smoking go bankrupt. They demonize it to rationalize increasing the taxes. They make way too much money off of tobacco.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I gotta say that is surprising for an industry that is being legislated out of business.
    Don't let the name confuse you.

    The Tobacco Company is an upscale restaurant in a converted tobacco warehouse.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    And intentionally wrote my letter to be as respectful as possible. For two reasons....first I am not only pro gun but pro private property rights. I see no good reason to seek government regulation (lawsuit) to make them pay for or to prohibit them from making their own rules in their own private property. That is not a direction we need to be headed right now in my opinion. Second I feel that, whether we like it, care for it or not...I believe we need to show as little aggression as possible in protecting our gun rights. The government and the media are trying VERY hard right now to demonize us...to portray us as crazy and mentally insane people..in order to create the public opinion needed to finally push for massive gun control measures. Right now, care for it or not, we would be best to entice these busInesses to respect us, and be our allies. We don't need to create the aggressive persona for the gun grabbers. They want that to be the perception VERY badly.

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