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Thread: Open carrying confused....

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bubba72's Avatar
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    Open carrying confused....

    Hello,

    I'm new to this site and have not a story but a question.

    Michigan is an open carry state, but what all entails to open carry?

    I've been told 2 different things, 1. you can carry with 1 in the chamber, 2. you can carry without 1 one the chamber.....
    Not sure which is true, i don't have a cpl yet, i need to take the class and get one, but in the meantime i just want to play it safe and figure whats true and whats false so i don't get a ticket or jail. Doaes anyone know a site where i can get the actual oc law? i've recently decided to oc for in my neighborhood in the past couple of months and the most recent attack just this past saturday night, and me and my wife walk 2 miles a day through our sub and and i want to cover my rights and the correct law reading so i can oc for my wife and i to walk safely.....and yes the attacks have put civilian in the hospital for a couple of days.

    Thanks, any and all information is welcomed and needed....

  2. #2
    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    Well the default answer is always; Check your State laws first. If you scroll down the main forum page you'll find the MI State forum that may have more specific info for you.

    Someone will be along shortly with better and more current info than I can give you.

    In the meantime;

    If OC is legal in your State (and I think it is in Meatchicken) then it doesn't matter how you choose to load (or unload) your firearm. 1 in the pipe or not is up to you. Opinions will vary on this, but the general feeling though, is that an empty chamber is useless, but do what you feel comfortable with and can still handle any unforeseen events.

    Carry safe &
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Bubba72's Avatar
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    Thanks Maine....

    I thought i did post it in MICHIGAN....lol
    at least thats where it's showing up at, guess i'll wait and see if i get some locals to chime in on it. And i agree.....an empty chamber is useless, but the law is the law and thats why i need to find out about it, because i'm sure a "bad guy" doesn't have an empty chamber and the the difference between life and death is a mere miliseconds...

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    If you don't have one in the chamber, you may as well have a club. Carry with one in the chamber -- always.

    There is no law against it.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    Hello,

    I'm new to this site and have not a story but a question.

    Michigan is an open carry state, but what all entails to open carry?

    I've been told 2 different things, 1. you can carry with 1 in the chamber, 2. you can carry without 1 one the chamber.....
    Not sure which is true, i don't have a cpl yet, i need to take the class and get one, but in the meantime i just want to play it safe and figure whats true and whats false so i don't get a ticket or jail. Doaes anyone know a site where i can get the actual oc law? i've recently decided to oc for in my neighborhood in the past couple of months and the most recent attack just this past saturday night, and me and my wife walk 2 miles a day through our sub and and i want to cover my rights and the correct law reading so i can oc for my wife and i to walk safely.....and yes the attacks have put civilian in the hospital for a couple of days.

    Thanks, any and all information is welcomed and needed....
    Well Bubba72 - welcome.

    First carrying with a round in the chamber is legal.

    Second carrying without one chambered is a good way to get hurt should you need to draw, and fire your weapon quickly. Quick draw is one of the main advantages to open carry.

    Now until you get your cpl you need to learn the transport laws forward and backwards. This means you can go places other than walking too with your gun but it must be unloaded in a case designed for transport. What I did before my cpl was to wear my holster, & mags. Once I got to my destination I would go to the trunk, open it, remove the closed case containing my pistol and a full mag out of the gun, then set it on the ground ( I will explain this in a minute) open the case, remove the pistol with one hand and the mag with the other and load it while keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

    This sounds like a hassle, but practiced it can be done very quickly and without drawing too much attention.

    *** The reason you should place the case on the ground or on a surface other than you car is - the law sees the roof, trunk, tailgate etc... as being IN your car. This can open you up to a concealed weapon charge if you are not careful. ***

    Until you get your CPL you need to stay away from some places which you should read the stickies here and at michiganopencarry.org for all of them. The one that trips up most NON CPL open carriers in MI, is carrying into places that are licensed to sell booze. This can be gas stations, is most grocery stores etc...

    That should get you started. You need to read, read, and read some more before you carry. The MSP legal update number 86 is a must read also for all MI open carriers. I would suggest you attend a open carry picnic or event near you for your first time out. It helps to see how others carry legally and the folks are always willing to help with questions. I know michigander, venator and many others had great advice to give me at my first OC picnic way back on a cool day in April of 2010! Thanks again guys and gals that were there.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-13-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    PS - I almost forgot. There is a radio show that is out of Flint called the Saturday afternoon shootout hosted by some really smart fellers (or in brian's case fart smellers sitting next to jerry)

    Even if you are not in the listening area you can call in with your questions. See the stickies for all the details.


    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

  7. #7
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    PS - I almost forgot. There is a radio show that is out of Flint called the Saturday afternoon shootout hosted by some really smart fellers (or in brian's case fart smellers sitting next to jerry)

    Even if you are not in the listening area you can call in with your questions. See the stickies for all the details.


    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Hey... I resemble that remark!! Brian is the smart good lookin one. Don't forget though; I'm so old I fart dust!
    The next show is Aug 18th (this saturday) @ 1pm.
    Join us in the chat and call in if you have any questions.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Speaking of old - I forgot the number, could you post it kind sir?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

  9. #9
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Speaking of old - I forgot the number, could you post it kind sir?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    810-208-1854
    The number is also on the crawler at the bottom of the screen if you're watching it live.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    810-208-1854
    The number is also on the crawler at the bottom of the screen if you're watching it live.
    Jerry, the number is still there when they watch the podcast later...duh.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    Hello,

    I'm new to this site and have not a story but a question.

    Michigan is an open carry state, but what all entails to open carry?

    I've been told 2 different things, 1. you can carry with 1 in the chamber, 2. you can carry without 1 one the chamber.....
    Not sure which is true, i don't have a cpl yet, i need to take the class and get one, but in the meantime i just want to play it safe and figure whats true and whats false so i don't get a ticket or jail. Doaes anyone know a site where i can get the actual oc law? i've recently decided to oc for in my neighborhood in the past couple of months and the most recent attack just this past saturday night, and me and my wife walk 2 miles a day through our sub and and i want to cover my rights and the correct law reading so i can oc for my wife and i to walk safely.....and yes the attacks have put civilian in the hospital for a couple of days.

    Thanks, any and all information is welcomed and needed....
    May I respectfully suggest...

    Do NOT open carry anywhere until you know and understand ALL THE APPLICABLE LAWS! Reading the stickies at the top of this page is a start.... attending an OC gathering (picnic or dinner) is a wonderful opportunity to get firsthand info. And I'll tell it like it is.... driving 100 miles to attend an OC picnic might be annoying but it is a hell of a lot better than having the police drive you to the prison where you will be staying for the next 2 years because you screwed up on a point of law.

    Please read ALL the stickies... read them again.. then read them again!.... and please ask questions.. ask every question you or your wife might think up. And the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask!!! So ASK!
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bubba72's Avatar
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    thanks glock9mm, and bikenut......i understand the law, i have been through the cpl class back in 06....but i never did apply which i wish i would have now i'll have to take the class all over again which is also fine with me, but i don't remember them touching on if your handgun can be loaded or unloaded while doing an oc. does anyone know of when an oc picnic/gathering/meet and greet thats in the romulus are, detroit metro airport is in my backyard?

    thanks mor the insight

  13. #13
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    If you learned the law from a CPL class, you more than likely learned it wrong! We get more people here than you would believe taht get some really screwed up ideas from class. Its almost funny.

    The first worst place to get info on gun laws is from a cop. The second worst place to get info in gun laws is from a CPL instructor.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Bubba72's Avatar
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    WOW!!! I just found out that my city has an ordinance saying that you CAN"T open carry a hand gun, you can only carry if you have a cpl.....

    Does this mean that local ordinance trumps STATE LAW? If so.....how can that be?

  15. #15
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    If you learned the law from a CPL class, you more than likely learned it wrong! We get more people here than you would believe taht get some really screwed up ideas from class. Its almost funny.

    The first worst place to get info on gun laws is from a cop. The second worst place to get info in gun laws is from a CPL instructor.
    You are so correct, in that if the consequences for running afoul of the law werent so dire it would be almost funny given the really screwed up ideas that some students get from their CPL classes.

    Yes, bottom line read the laws for yourself. I would argue that the largest hurdle in becoming a gun owner who carries his/her arms outside the home is learning the laws for themselves. Hence learn the laws backwards, forwards and even sideways because that's the angle in which the police and prosecutors will come at you when they think you've made a misstep with your firearm.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    WOW!!! I just found out that my city has an ordinance saying that you CAN"T open carry a hand gun, you can only carry if you have a cpl.....

    Does this mean that local ordinance trumps STATE LAW? If so.....how can that be?
    Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

    Local law is preempted, it is unenforceable! Open carry IS legal where you live Romulus can kiss your american A**.

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bubba72's Avatar
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    i actually called the PD cuz my wife was uncomfortable about it, she WASN"T uncomfortable with me carrying BUT uncomfortable about getting the police called on me and me getting arrested. My phone call went like this:

    Me: Michigan is an open carry state and i don't have a cpl, is it legal for me to open carry when my wife and i walk at night?
    Officer: Ummm.....yes it is, But you HAVE to have a cpl to carry a handgun in Romulus
    Me: If Michigan is an open carry state, then why can't i oc?
    Officer: You'll have to call tomorrow and ask for Sgt. ********* , he knows the in's and out's about the oc laws, bye

    That's in a nutshell how our whole minute to minute and a hlaf conversation.

    I did read about the military person that was arrested, detained, handgun siezed, and verbally harassed over on the west side of the state. Yes he was released and charges dropped but he had to get a lawyer, and he then turned and sued the county and city in federal court for harassment and damages, the outcome of it is yet not known......well, at least I haven't heard the outcome of his case.

    Bottom line......local ordinace should not trump state law, and it doesn't.....But! is it worth the possible outcome of being arrested and lawyer fees that i can't afford and then turn around and sue the city? Not at this time, but i assure you this......I'm going to get to the bottom of this and take on the fight if i have too.

    I also read the thread from 2yrs ago with the letter written to the mayor of Romulus and was responded to by a city council member, and the council member says he will check into it. But from what I read in that thread it didn't show a update since the response for Romulus.

    I will call the police department tomorrow and see what information I'm given and pass it on to everyone through this thread. Not just for my knowledge, but for anyone who wants to oc in Romulus either a resident or a nonresident of Romulus.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    I'm going to get to the bottom of this and take on the fight if i have too.



    You won't have to do this alone.

    Please start a new thread on this so that it gets noticed, and people will organize and take care of this problem.

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    And no, you do NOT have to have a CPL to OC in Romulus or anywhere else. !

    PM TheQ

    He is the President of MOC (Michigan Open Carry. He will help you with this for sure.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-14-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Call tomorrow and see what they say. Could be a good subject for this subforum:

    MOC - Documented Government Abuse
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
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    Wheels

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    Doaes anyone know a site where i can get the actual oc law?
    Sheesh, 19 replies and nobody gave the dude the website?

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vvo...aspx?page=home

    You can do key word searches through all of Michigan's laws.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    i actually called the PD ...
    And thus, young grasshopper, you have learned the first lesson of firearm advocacy....never EVER ask the police for advice on the law because they do not know it and will give you their opinion dressed up in authority and presented as law.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    i have been through the cpl class back in 06....but i never did apply which i wish i would have now i'll have to take the class all over again
    Why? The certificate you got from the class doesn't expire. As long as it has the required wording I'd just submit the thing.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5sa...%20certificate

    (c) The program provides a certificate of completion that states the program complies with the requirements of this section and that the individual successfully completed the course, and that contains the printed name and signature of the course instructor. Not later than October 1, 2004, the certificate of completion shall contain the statement, “This course complies with section 5j of 1927 PA 372
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Jerry, the number is still there when they watch the podcast later...duh.
    Well I know that! He can't very well call in with a question if we aren't there...DUH!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba72 View Post
    Thanks Maine....

    I thought i did post it in MICHIGAN....lol
    at least thats where it's showing up at, guess i'll wait and see if i get some locals to chime in on it. And i agree.....an empty chamber is useless, but the law is the law and thats why i need to find out about it, because i'm sure a "bad guy" doesn't have an empty chamber and the the difference between life and death is a mere miliseconds...
    FOOP! Yeah I noticed that later and forgot to come back and edit the MI board part in my post. Looks like you're getting the low down on your Q now though. Sucks gettin old, the memory is like a steal sieve.

    Didn't see a new thread dealing with your preemption issue, but a well worded email to your town manager & Police Chief should get the ball rolling to make the change to legality for the town.

    YOUR MOC mates should know exactly what to do.
    Last edited by Maine Expat; 08-14-2012 at 08:09 AM.
    “Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

    Plato knew this yet today's antis still don't get it!

    Join the fight for freedom
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