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Thread: Michigan basics...

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Michigan basics...

    I'm quite new to guns in general, but strongly believe that we should all be allowed to OC virtually everywhere. I hate the thought of not being allowed to carry somewhere. Is this http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf correct? I have read a number of stories of people OCing in schools and just wonder exactly what the law is currently. I am likely to begin carrying, but I want a solid place to go for local laws etc. again, I'm completely 2A, but also wish to abide. Any help and direction is most appreciated.

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    You're in the right place. Read the stickies.

    If you have a CPL it is in fact legal to carry openly in schools, as well as the other gun free zones in the state. This does NOT include federal buildings, (post office), court buildings secured areas of jails and airports and some casinos. If you do not have a CPL you may not even be on the premises of a gun free zone. You must have the gun unloaded in a case designed for a firearm, and in the trunk. You still cant have it in even the parking lot of a gun free zone.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Sorry... Just noticed the stickies! Very helpful.

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    No apologies needed. This is a good place, relationships are made here. From my experience, this forum has some of the most educated people on firearms law in the state.

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    Im suprised you don't Pat. You were one of the ones who helped me learn these things.

    MCL 750.234d

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theater.

    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    I am most excited to realize that I am actually allowed to protect myself from criminals... I haven't had to so far. Next task is to convince my wife that carrying a gun doesn't make me evil. Oy

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I am most excited to realize that I am actually allowed to protect myself from criminals... I haven't had to so far. Next task is to convince my wife that carrying a gun doesn't make me evil. Oy
    Took me a little bit with my wife too. I just kept showing her news articles regarding both violent crimes against people, and articles showing where legally carried or owned guns have saved someones life. She came around eventually.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I have my gun first.

    ...Convincing it to let me have a wife, thats going to be another story.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Im suprised you don't Pat. You were one of the ones who helped me learn these things.

    MCL 750.234d

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theater.

    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    Pat is talking about possession vs transporting a firearm. A third party rumored contact with someone from the AG's office said possession is NOT the same as transporting and feels you CAN have a properly stored firearm in a vehicle in the places listed in.234d as it's being transported not possessed.

    So it's still an untested issue.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Thanks Ven, I didn't know that was what he was referring to.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I am most excited to realize that I am actually allowed to protect myself from criminals... I haven't had to so far. Next task is to convince my wife that carrying a gun doesn't make me evil. Oy
    We have a member who's wife cried every time she saw a gun. Not sure if she is carring yet but the crying has stopped I believe.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    When I see the price tag on a gun, sometimes I cry a little...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    And doesn't the permit to purchase grant the distinct separate acts of purchasing, carrying, possessing and transporting a pistol?
    It has been argued quite successfully that the LTP does expire, and may not give exemption as a result. We had been discussing it in its relationship to the GFSZ and whether it would cover you there.

    IIRC DrTodds argument was the most convincing.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    the police know the difference between possession of a firearm and transporting a firearm...it has been tested almost every single day on the streets of Michigan.
    However, that doesn't mean some LEO won't jam you up if he gets upset with you for some reason. You might trust them more than I do.

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    Regular Member Xanaseyr's Avatar
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    If transporting is distinct from transportation and transportation does not imply possession, does transportation imply carrying?
    Why don't we transport loaded pistols without a CPL?

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    Regular Member Xanaseyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    I'm not sure what that has to do with transporting loaded pistols.
    (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    You cannot transport a loaded handgun in any motor vehicle unless:
    1. You have a Concealed Pistol License.
    2. Someone in the vehicle has a Concealed Pistol License and they are ok with taking temporary posession of your pistol.
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 08-15-2012 at 01:19 AM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member Xanaseyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    It says that only loaded pistols can be transported. Didn't you read it?
    Maybe, assuming that transportation doesn't imply carry.
    It seemed from your response that you might have been suggesting that 750.227c would prohibit transportation of a loaded pistol.

    I actually read that bit as "a firearm which is not a pistol and is loaded," rather than "a firearm which is not a loaded pistol."

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    You cannot transport a loaded handgun in any motor vehicle unless:
    1. You have a Concealed Pistol License.
    2. Someone in the vehicle has a Concealed Pistol License and they are ok with taking temporary posession of your pistol.
    This is what I generally pass along, as that's what MCL is commonly accepted as providing.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone transport a loaded handgun without a CPL, although I don't think a plain-English reading prohibits doing so as long as transportation doesn't imply carry.

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    The problem with transport is in 750.227 and its definitions, 750.231a. Yance and I have been working on fixing this, and I'lll start the thread on it in a couple weeks.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    It says that only loaded pistols can be transported. Didn't you read it?



    That means that only loaded pistols can be transported.
    No it does not, it is only pointing out that pistols are subject to other laws. This was debated over 6 years ago on OCDO. There is plenty of case law of people being convicted for carrying ANY loaded firearm in a vehicle, and for a loaded pistol if you don't have a CPL.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    No it does not, it is only pointing out that pistols are subject to other laws. This was debated over 6 years ago on OCDO. There is plenty of case law of people being convicted for carrying ANY loaded firearm in a vehicle, and for a loaded pistol if you don't have a CPL.
    Thanks Venator. It wasn't "debated" as much as "pointed out". But, you are correct.
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  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McCracken View Post
    My statement simply says that the statute specifies that only loaded pistols can be transported. Where did you see anymore than that. Do you have some sort of special glasses that can see words that are invisible to normal people?
    Ah yes. Just wanted to clarify as some may assume it is lawful to transport a loaded pistol without a CPL. We wouldn't want to confuse anyone, as I'm sure your goal is to educate in as precise a manner as possible.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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