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Thread: Florida County Court Judge off target on the right to bear arms.

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Florida County Court Judge off target on the right to bear arms.

    Florida County Court Judge off target on the right to bear arms.

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, Aug 14th 2012

    Ft. Pierce, FL - Today, St. Lucie County Judge Cliff Barnes denied all constitutional arguments to dismiss the case against Dale Norman, without written order.

    State v. Norman is the case of a law abiding concealed carry licensee who was arrested and prosecuted in Fort Pierce, FL for violating Florida nearly complete ban on Open Carry after his otherwise lawfully carried handgun unknowingly became unconcealed while walking.

    The denials were based, in part, on the courts findings that the statute is facially overbroad and is facially vague, but was not necessarily improper “as applied” in this case. This turns the standard of statutory review on its head by applying it in reverse.

    The judge also did not fully consider the Second Amendment or FL Art.1 Sec. 8 question; denying it because the question of the right to bear arms "is for someone above the level of this court."

    The prosecution, having already been notified of our intent to appeal, took the unusual tactic of stipulating to the court that withholding adjudication and just imposing a fine would suit the State’s interest after the Judge explained his grounds for dismissal of the constitutional challenges.

    The Second Amendment question is fairly straightforward; Florida courts have clearly acknowledged that the carrying of a concealed firearm is a privilege subject to even being banned completely, not a right protected by the constitution. Florida appellate courts have found that the “Retroactive application of (new Florida Statutes), is not unconstitutional because "a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm is a privilege and not a vested right.Crane v. Department of State, 547 So. 2d 266 (Fla. 1989).

    The “privilege of a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm” recognized In Crane cannot replace, or substitute for, the fundamental right guaranteed by the U.S. and Florida Constitutions. Florida courts have long held that there is a right to bear arms outside of the home.

    The written order for Dale Norman's case is pending. We are asking the judge to certify the constitutional questions directly to the Florida 4th District Court of Appeals as matters of great public importance.

    Florida Carry is providing for the continued defense of Dale Norman and seeks to clarify what the right to bear arms is in Florida. Please help us win this fight for your RIGHT to Bear Arms by Joining or Donating.

    We cannot continue our work statewide without your support,
    Please Join Florida Carry or Donate today!
    Last edited by StogieC; 08-15-2012 at 01:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    It's not as much as I'd like it to be, but funds were sent.

    This is beyond BS - the precise term eludes me at the moment but possibly when my blood pressure gets down closer to normal I will recall it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    So, you're posing the same argument that I have for over 15 years. And, getting the same result...

    But this time, the Forum agrees with you, and not The State.

    What legal weight does the Forum carry? And what made these facts different today than they were 5, 10, 15 years ago? What makes the cause deserving of support today, but only slander 3 years ago?

    It all comes down to The People. If they don't want or care for their Rights, the minority that knows better is cannon fodder... This is what you get with a Republic that forgets it is a Republic. Mob rule...

    Good luck...

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Not appropriate
    Last edited by John Pierce; 08-15-2012 at 12:22 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    We're not actually surprised, are we? Now I'm glad you're appealing in order to expose the state's crimes, but does Dale know he's going to end up in jail over this? I hope you're being honest with him: the chance of any court giving Fl OC is about zero.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    We're not actually surprised, are we? Now I'm glad you're appealing in order to expose the state's crimes, but does Dale know he's going to end up in jail over this? I hope you're being honest with him: the chance of any court giving Fl OC is about zero.
    Jail is off the table, he can not get a worse result than his current sentence by appealing.

  6. #6
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Jail is off the table, he can not get a worse result than his current sentence by appealing.
    sweet. Full steam ahead then!
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Not appropriate
    Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies. when the Moderator and Founders of the website are in on it, exactly how much progress do you think will be made?

    Getting it wrong on purpose. Just like the NRA. The enemies who pretend to be your friends...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  8. #8
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies. when the Moderator and Founders of the website are in on it, exactly how much progress do you think will be made?

    Getting it wrong on purpose. Just like the NRA. The enemies who pretend to be your friends...
    what did it say? i can't remember

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