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Thread: OT - Citizen harrassed by police for taking video

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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    OT - Citizen harrassed by police for taking video


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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If they really thought he was doing something illegal, he wouldn't have been able to shut them down and walk away.
    They knew it, he knew it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I appreciate a good video of a citizen standing up to cops for his rights.

    This should be posted in Kentucky or General topics section.

    A mod could move it for ya.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-15-2012 at 08:37 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    These cops are so full of SEE ARE AYE PEE.

    They keep changing your story. Looking to make up charges. This is almost funny.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    @5:40 in the officer finally evokes the mythical "right" to police safety that trumps the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Never fails.

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 08-16-2012 at 01:34 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    @5:40 in the officer finally evokes the mythical "right" to police safety that trumps the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
    I've always wondered about that. Given the 4th, 5th and 14th amendments, how can a seizure of a lawfully carried weapon be legal? Washington supposedly has stronger constitutional protections than the federal constitution provides, so if an action would seem to violate the federal constitution, it would almost certainly violate the state one.

    Seizing a weapon, even temporarily, "for officer safety" is making the statement that the officer believes the citizen is going to unlawfully draw and fire. How is making such a claim in public not defamation?

    It's illegal to forcibly disarm a police officer in Washington except in self-defense or on the order of a judge, but what would the reaction be if you cited the recent acts-of-Birk and asked an officer to disarm himself for citizen safety? What's the penalty for standing on your rights and refusing to surrender your weapon for "officer safety"?

    A public official who uses the authority of his/her position to violate a statutory, civil or constitutional right has committed a federal crime, and doing so with a dangerous weapon is a felony (18USC242). Washington does not exempt a uniformed police officer (in any law that I've ever found anyway) from a citizen's arrest. Does Washington case law support the concept that simply being visibly armed (even if weapon is not drawn) while committing a crime makes the crime an armed crime? If so, a simply oral discouragement of exercise of rights by a police officer would be a felony crime for citizen's arrest purposes.
    Last edited by Difdi; 08-16-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    RCW 9A.56.200
    Robbery in the first degree.


    (1) A person is guilty of robbery in the first degree if:

    (a) In the commission of a robbery or of immediate flight therefrom, he or she:

    (i) Is armed with a deadly weapon; or

    (ii) Displays what appears to be a firearm or other deadly weapon; or

    (iii) Inflicts bodily injury; or

    (b) He or she commits a robbery within and against a financial institution as defined in RCW 7.88.010 or 35.38.060.

    (2) Robbery in the first degree is a class A felony.


    If you have a weapon on your person you're generally considered to be armed. I may be all wet on this one but I am pretty sure I am spot on.

    If you have a gun in your pocket you are armed are you not?

    I would have to say that officers are often guilty of this.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 08-16-2012 at 12:54 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    A perfect example if you go out looking for a fight, you will find one, right, wrong or indifferent and most who view this will think, what an idiot.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    What makes you think he went out looking for a fight? The situation presented to us goes like this:

    OC'er checks his email via phone. It is a sunny Kentucky day so the OC'er holds the phone closer to his face to shield the screen from the sun. He happens to be facing a public building. (police station)

    Police approach him so he (the OC'er) prepares the video function on his phone.

    Police begin intimidating the OC'er and detain him.

    They end up doing nothing because they had no legal standing to do what they did.

    OC'er leaves and was polite during the entire encounter.

    I am against baiting cops as it only creates a bad situation for everyone involved but this seems to be, according to all evidence presented, a LAC standing up for his rights during an unlawful detainment.

    I say good for him.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Was he open carrying? concealed carrying? I did not catch anyone say anything about either, oh does that mean this topic of Off Topic as not to dealing with open carry?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    A perfect example if you go out looking for a fight, you will find one, right, wrong or indifferent and most who view this will think, what an idiot.
    You're absolutely right. We should stop open carrying immediately. After all, standing up for our rights is looking for a fight, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Was he open carrying? concealed carrying? I did not catch anyone say anything about either, oh does that mean this topic of Off Topic as not to dealing with open carry?
    There. Now the thread is at least theoretically on topic!
    Last edited by Difdi; 08-16-2012 at 08:15 PM.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    You're absolutely right. We should stop open carrying immediately. After all, standing up for our rights is looking for a fight, right?


    Exactly. Once again the big bad "sheepdogs" show their true colors. Cherry picking rights. Everyone should be filming, photographing, recording, and writing about their public employees. It's called citizen journalism and it's about holding them accountable.

    Pathetic.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 08-17-2012 at 04:19 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Everyone should be filming, photographing, recording, and writing about their public employees. It's called citizen journalism and it's about holding them accountable.

    Pathetic.

    Better yet, just install cameras EVERYWHERE in public. Make Public Streets and Highways just like the Casio's in Las Vegas.

    That way there will be video evidence of ANY wrongdoing on either side.


    Of course if that were to happen here it would just make us like the UK. We'd also have to be real careful of our personal "grooming" habits while in public
    Last edited by amlevin; 08-17-2012 at 10:35 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Better yet, just install cameras EVERYWHERE in public. Make Public Streets and Highways just like the Casio's in Las Vegas.

    That way there will be video evidence of ANY wrongdoing on either side.


    Of course if that were to happen here it would just make us like the UK. We'd also have to be real careful of our personal "grooming" habits while in public
    Did you hear? UK police recently arrested a guy for Face Crime. His face is partially paralyzed and he didn't have the right expression while walking on a public street. He was hauled in for breaching the peace. We're inching closer to 1984 every day, and the UK seems to be using it as a handbook.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/au...arrest-smiling

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    What is baiting the police anyhow?

    I though it was when you tied a doughnut to a string and dragged it behind you. Or maybe when you're dragging a corn cob behind you.
    Like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=JhZC8XbxuYk

    My question is how is exercising one's rights baiting the police?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    What is baiting the police anyhow?

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 08-17-2012 at 03:04 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie
    So baiting cops is breaking the law with intent to spark conflict?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    So baiting cops is breaking the law with intent to spark conflict?

    No. Baiting the cops is engaging in a Constitutionally guaranteed right that pisses of the hypocrites who cherry pick the Constitution. Both the "sheepdogs" here and those in uniform with badges. Like dancing and singing at the Jefferson Memorial in Washington DC.... Which is supposedly "illegal" and a "lefty stunt" even though both are protected by the 1st Amendment.

    Oh the Irony.


    The servant waits while the master baits.



    [sarcasm off]
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    No. Baiting the cops is engaging in a Constitutionally guaranteed right that pisses of the hypocrites who cherry pick the Constitution. Both the "sheepdogs" here and those in uniform with badges. Like dancing and singing at the Jefferson Memorial in Washington DC.... Which is supposedly "illegal" and a "lefty stunt" even though both are protected by the 1st Amendment.

    Oh the Irony.


    The servant waits while the master baits.



    [sarcasm off]
    Ah so you're baiting cops any time you exercise a right then and you're opponent wants to try to skew your actions.

    Like walking down the road with a "Vote for _________" sign would be baiting cops.
    Dancing along a sidewalk would be baiting cops.
    Standing up for your rights would be baiting cops.

    I think I am beginning to understand. You're baiting cops anytime someone wishes to claim you are. I am glad that baiting cops it not illegal, yet. Otherwise we could all be locked up.


    It looks like you've made some rather BIG decisions.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post


    It looks like you've made some rather BIG decisions.
    You are getting it. You can exercise your rights all you want. If they are approved here first and have to do with firearms. And not that hippie crap like writing and taking pictures and sh*t.

    And actually I have. I made a big decision by following my heart and pursuing the career I wanted over 20 years ago. My career choice is directly protected by the 1st Amendment. So every time I get threatened, shoved up against walls, screamed at, lied to and dragged around by cops while doing my job it's my fault. Because I'm obviously a master baiter. A lefty libtard master baiter.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 08-19-2012 at 02:14 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  21. #21
    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    Law inforcement tries to bait citizens all the time. So whats the big deal if returned the favor? We have rights and to not exercise them would be a shame. I have my phone ready everytime I see a LEO. On a one on one situation, its the LEOs word against yours. Hmmm wonder who would win that one. However, with the video above, I would have done it different. I would have never told them that if I was being detained I would give you my ID. I would have asked if I was being detained, if no answer. Have a nice day. Then I owuld have walked away.
    Clerk: Is that a weapon?
    Me: No, it is my tool.
    Clerk:
    Me: A tool that takes some time to master!
    Clerk:
    Me: Have a nice day!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    You are getting it. You can exercise your rights all you want. If they are approved here first and have to do with firearms. And not that hippie crap like writing and taking pictures and sh*t.

    And actually I have. I made a bid decision by following my heart and perusing the career I wanted over 20 years ago. My career choice is directly protected by the 1st Amendment. So every time I get threatened, shoved up against walls, screamed at, lied to and dragged around by cops while doing my job it's my fault. Because I'm obviously a master baiter. A lefty libtard master baiter.
    It was in reference to the SAME movie you made reference to.... LAUGHING!
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    Law inforcement tries to bait citizens all the time. So whats the big deal if returned the favor? We have rights and to not exercise them would be a shame. I have my phone ready everytime I see a LEO. On a one on one situation, its the LEOs word against yours. Hmmm wonder who would win that one.
    Yep. I will never understand the mindset it is Ok for cops (as government agents) to unconstitutionally proactively look for trouble, yet non cops are not supposed to constitutionally keep an eye on their employees? Or even test to see whether or not they are doing their job properly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yep. I will never understand the mindset it is OK for cops (as government agents) to unconstitutionally proactively look for trouble, yet non cops are not supposed to constitutionally keep an eye on their employees? Or even test to see whether or not they are doing their job properly.
    I am glad that I am not the only one who does not understand this. Shoot you can get 'tested' by your boss at any other job. How is it such a bad thing for us, as bosses, to test cops?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  25. #25
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    I've had cops say the same thing to me ... I just ignores them...they asked for ID too & I just ignored them..I don't initiate a conversation or continue any such conversation. Nor do I stop taking pics or vids ... and I give them no discussion...want to drive them crazy? Just keep your mouth shut..

    And they all talk about 9/11 .. I'm very impressed by their logic...good police work der guys

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