Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Michigan Pistols question

  1. #1
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137

    Michigan Pistols question

    I have a question and am looking for your opinions on this. I have a line of AR recievers and plan on buying several and registering them all as handguns. My question is...To get the MI pistol designation do the pistols have to be "complete" to qualify or can the later be built into MI pistols. I have looked but can't find any firm answer in the law on this so I put it to the forum.

    Thoughts?
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Re: Michigan Pistols question

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    I have a question and am looking for your opinions on this. I have a line of AR recievers and plan on buying several and registering them all as handguns. My question is...To get the MI pistol designation do the pistols have to be "complete" to qualify or can the later be built into MI pistols. I have looked but can't find any firm answer in the law on this so I put it to the forum.

    Thoughts?
    Does #2, the second one, on page 36 of this document answer your question?

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Fi...de_98674_7.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  3. #3
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Yes it does indeed help. Thank you!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  4. #4
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Can AR's actually get beneath 30" with a stock and 16" barrel? I'd have thought that'd be SBR territory, but then I'm not an AR guy.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-16-2012 at 02:55 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Definitely not knowledgeable about ARs, but couldn't the OP install a collapsible stock?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belleville , michigan, ,
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    I have a question and am looking for your opinions on this. I have a line of AR recievers and plan on buying several and registering them all as handguns. My question is...To get the MI pistol designation do the pistols have to be "complete" to qualify or can the later be built into MI pistols. I have looked but can't find any firm answer in the law on this so I put it to the forum.

    Thoughts?
    So your wanting to buy them as rifle receivers and register them as a handgun versus buying them as pistol receivers to begin with? That seems like a good way to lock yourself into getting a mi pistol locked in before the law changes for cheap if you can do it, can a ar be a mi pistol though? Would like to know myself, may buy a receiver for future use if so

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by choover View Post
    So your wanting to buy them as rifle receivers and register them as a handgun versus buying them as pistol receivers to begin with? That seems like a good way to lock yourself into getting a mi pistol locked in before the law changes for cheap if you can do it, can a ar be a mi pistol though? Would like to know myself, may buy a receiver for future use if so
    The point is that as I suspected and pat confirmed before getting banned again, MiDAP status cannot be had through a butt stock equipped AR recognized as a long gun by federal law. Between the spring tube preventing a folding stock, and a 16" barrel, it ain't gonna happen as far as I know.

    It's not a bad idea to have a federal law AR pistol for the purpose of having rifle firepower on a CPL, and having that tube there to to position on your cheek for stability. But it would not in any way appear to be something to run out and buy before the deadline, because the ability to carry AR pistols is not effected by this new law.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-16-2012 at 11:35 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Hi Pat. Leadhose is one of my screen names on MGO.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    Michigan Pistols question

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Hi Pat. Leadhose is one of my screen names on MGO.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bETCusT5kNM

    But the Pat cane back, the very next day; yes the Pat came back, they thought he was a goner!
    Last edited by TheQ; 08-17-2012 at 12:48 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quoted for reference before the next ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by LEADHOSE View Post
    Correct. Even with a 14.5" barrel with a pinned extended A2 flash hider (makes it 16" barrel) the overall length, with stock colapsed, is still just over 30".
    This means two things. AR's are useless for MiDAP registration, and also too long for my proposed idea of having 16" barreled pistols with quick attach/detach stocks in order to satisfy the new law change.

    Considering that smellslikemichigan made a pretty solid argument for the grandfather clause expiring if registration goes away, I would again suggest that instead of investing in MiDAPs, folks instead seek out federal and state law AK pistols with 16" barrels. This will either mean custom work or home gun smithing, but it is the best way to go that I am aware of at this point.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I dont know, how many have you had here?

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    Michigan Pistols question

    Quote Originally Posted by LEADHOSE View Post
    ONE of your screen names on MGO??? How many do you have Brainless?
    As many as you do here?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by LEADHOSE View Post
    Why the quick attach/detach stocks? Do an AK folder. Or a Sig556 folder.
    That way it'll be a pistol, through and through, convertible to a rifle, NOT a MiDAP, which as I outlined above I would suggest against bothering with.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    Wel,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by LEADHOSE View Post
    Why the quick attach/detach stocks? Do an AK folder. Or a Sig556 folder.
    the original Michigan pistol law was ,, longer,, 27? inches.
    My AK-47 side folder qualified then...

    The new law 26 inches doesnt work for my gun,,, but
    the AK-47 Underfolder would qualify as it is only 25 7/8 inches long when folded..
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    the AK-47 Underfolder would qualify as it is only 25 7/8 inches long when folded..
    Federal law measures minimal long gun length with folding stocks open, Michigan measures it with them closed. The under folder is illegal in Michigan without a longer barrel to keep the OAL over 26" closed.

    Which again is why I suggest starting out with a 16" barreled AK pistol, then adding a quick detach stock.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-17-2012 at 02:34 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  16. #16
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    My friend has a CNC shop and a manufactures license. The buffer tube has been slightly shortend and so has the bolt carrier. Also a collasepable stock that looks very similar to a HK MP5 stock that attaches to the slip ring at the front of the upper reciever is used brining the total length to 29.7 inches. When he has a final product and if he wants i'll post pictures.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  17. #17
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    the original Michigan pistol law was ,, longer,, 27? inches.
    My AK-47 side folder qualified then...

    The new law 26 inches doesnt work for my gun,,, but
    the AK-47 Underfolder would qualify as it is only 25 7/8 inches long when folded..
    I believe that they can still be registered as pistols until January 1, 2013.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I believe that they can still be registered as pistols until January 1, 2013.
    If they rush through the elimination of the pistol registration as it looks like they might, perhaps not.

    And depending on interpretation of the law, if registration is eliminated, it may or may not mean anything if you do manage to register them before whatever ends up being the cut off date.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    If they rush through the elimination of the pistol registration as it looks like they might, perhaps not.

    And depending on interpretation of the law, if registration is eliminated, it may or may not mean anything if you do manage to register them before whatever ends up being the cut off date.
    Very valid concerns.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Very valid concerns.
    And with that in mind, I'd suggest to NHGCRPR45 to try if possible to have the gun initially configured as a federal law pistol. Otherwise all the effort may be wasted.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •