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Thread: 2a and jury duty

  1. #1
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    2a and jury duty

    I had jury duty the other day in Denver, and I got to thinking. Dangerous, I know.

    Weapons are not allowed in the courthouse beyond the permanently mounted metal detectors yada, yada..........

    If there is no weapons check (Think coat check, gun locker, safe place to leave it) one would have to leave the gun in ones vehicle.

    Would that be sufficient reason to note on the jury summons to be excused from duty?

    In part, the very nature of this scenario is limiting your right to carry (Car to courthouse), and even more impractical if you had to take a cab, as carry on public transportation is a no-no (No place to leave it anyway).

    Just an open thought here. Don't take this as I'm going to try to get out of future jury duty. I was actually looking forward to seeing a case.

    Thoughts?
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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    As much as Jury Duty is a PIA, I look forward to my next summons. Although I'd prefer to never be on another murder trial ever again!


    As for that being an excuse to be released from duty, I'd say that would be like claiming unemployment because your employer wont let you carry while you work.


    .02

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    In my diggings, I found reference to Pennsylvania, where county courts were to provide free weapons check, issue receipts, etc, etc.

    "913. Possession of Firearm or Other Dangerous Weapon in Court Facility...........

    ............(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)" Taken from http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/215...p-gun-car.html

    I'll keep researching, I don't think that this is an unreasonable thing.

    As for your example of "As for that being an excuse to be released from duty, I'd say that would be like claiming unemployment because your employer wont let you carry while you work.", you have the freedom to change jobs if your current employer will not allow you to carry. For jury summons, you will be held in contempt of court. There's a big difference there.
    Last edited by Shadetreezj; 08-15-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Is there anything like in WA, they are required to provide lock boxes or an ability to check your weapon if you have business in the prohibited areas of a courthouse (RCW 9.41.300)?

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    That's what I'm looking for. Haven't found it yet, if it exists.
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have any film......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    I had jury duty the other day in Denver, and I got to thinking. Dangerous, I know.

    Weapons are not allowed in the courthouse beyond the permanently mounted metal detectors yada, yada..........
    Have you tried calling the courthouse? You don't have to provide your name. Just, "I see the state law requires gun lockers. Can you confirm? I am a permitted citizen and have business to attend to at the courthouse. I prefer not to leave my weapon in my vehicle where it can be stolen nor to leave myself defenseless while walking from downtown parking areas. What procedure can I expect?"

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    No lock box requirement, but they must be willing to hold the firearm:

    Colorado Revised Statutes 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions

    [sections deleted]

    (4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

    (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

    (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

    (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

    So if they're unwilling/unable to hold your firearm while you're on jury duty, they're in violation of law.

    O2

    Ps. When you fill out your paperwork at the start of JD, there's usually a blank section that says something along the lines of "Is there anything else that the judge should be aware of?" in which I always write: "I will not find anyone guilty of a law that I feel is unconstitutional." Which boils down to I won't find anyone guilty of any "prior-restraint" firearms laws, for example.
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 08-16-2012 at 12:00 PM.
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    Thanks for the ref O2.

    I start seeing double looking through all of the statutes.

    The amount of laws on the books is crazy!! If each state/ city would clean up retired verbage, it would be, at least, a little less daunting.

    I'm going to work on a "Cheat sheet" of my own. Printed double side on a laminated business card sized stock.
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have any film......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    I'm going to work on a "Cheat sheet" of my own. Printed double side on a laminated business card sized stock.
    Get a magnifying glass too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Get a magnifying glass too.
    No kidding!!


    I read the above reference a bout 20 times, and it just doesn't sit right.
    "(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:"

    (a) and (b) removed to reduce clutter.

    "(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building."

    I read that as I cannot carry where the security personnel requires them to hold a weapon. Not, they Will hold the weapon for you.

    I read (c) as a defining characteristic of where a permitted carrier is not allowed to carry.

    Am I reading too much into this?

    I asked a few Aurora cops that I had class with today, and they have never heard of a gun check/ lock box type of thing. I WAS impressed that the guy that I was talking to (primarily) thinks that every citizen should be armed, and carry. I didn't expect that.
    Last edited by Shadetreezj; 08-16-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    I WAS impressed that the guy that I was talking to (primarily) thinks that every citizen should be armed, and carry.
    For the record, I don't think that. Guns are heavy. We just need good publicity of enough LACs carrying to deter the BGs.

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    Regular Member widowman10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    and even more impractical if you had to take a cab, as carry on public transportation is a no-no
    would you mind clarifying this for me please? frowned upon or don't do it? denver only?

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    No kidding!!


    I read the above reference a bout 20 times, and it just doesn't sit right.
    "(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:"

    (a) and (b) removed to reduce clutter.

    "(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building."

    I read that as I cannot carry where the security personnel requires them to hold a weapon. Not, they Will hold the weapon for you.

    I read (c) as a defining characteristic of where a permitted carrier is not allowed to carry.

    Am I reading too much into this?

    I asked a few Aurora cops that I had class with today, and they have never heard of a gun check/ lock box type of thing. I WAS impressed that the guy that I was talking to (primarily) thinks that every citizen should be armed, and carry. I didn't expect that.
    Ok, now go back and re-read this again with the thought of the Webb building on your mind. That's the one downtown where you go to pay parking fines. If you walk in, not only is there no place to store your firearm while there, but they also do not require EVERYONE to disarm while in the building. Brinks. Why is it that they are exempt? My life is worth less than your money.

    And while we are on the subject of security... why is it that the city of Denver contracts out the security services for the Denver Police Department HQ? Can they not find any of thier own people who are qualified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    Thanks for the ref O2.

    I start seeing double looking through all of the statutes.

    The amount of laws on the books is crazy!! If each state/ city would clean up retired verbage, it would be, at least, a little less daunting.
    That's why our Founding Fathers wrote it as, "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." They knew what they were doing. It's all the anti-2A knuckleheads since then who've made a mess of the laws.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    And while we are on the subject of security... why is it that the city of Denver contracts out the security services for the Denver Police Department HQ? Can they not find any of thier own people who are qualified?
    I'd say it's likely the private security is cheaper and they can devote their "qualified" officers to doing something besides saying "sign in, please".

  16. #16
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    i walked in, concealed, waited for 10 minutes, met w/'judge' in little booth, discussed my ticket, told tough, paid my fine, and left...

    basically i forgot i was wearing my firearm...

    wabbit

    ps: not sure you could get away w/it if you are stuck in a chair listening to folk debate the facts
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 08-22-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    No lock box requirement, but they must be willing to hold the firearm:

    Colorado Revised Statutes 18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions

    [sections deleted]

    (4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

    (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

    (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

    (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

    So if they're unwilling/unable to hold your firearm while you're on jury duty, they're in violation of law.

    O2

    Ps. When you fill out your paperwork at the start of JD, there's usually a blank section that says something along the lines of "Is there anything else that the judge should be aware of?" in which I always write: "I will not find anyone guilty of a law that I feel is unconstitutional." Which boils down to I won't find anyone guilty of any "prior-restraint" firearms laws, for example.
    That works to get you of jury duty I'm sure; might just as well write "I believe in the citizens right of jury nullification" and you will never serve on a jury.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    That works to get you of jury duty I'm sure; might just as well write "I believe in the citizens right of jury nullification" and you will never serve on a jury.
    Actually every time I've made it to the first or second round of selection despite what I have written. I don't write it to "get out of jury duty" I write it because it's the truth.

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Actually every time I've made it to the first or second round of selection despite what I have written. I don't write it to "get out of jury duty" I write it because it's the truth.

    O2
    And that is precisely why the DA does not want people like you and me on a jury.

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    You could plead the 5th and remain silent, and cause a hung jury. lol.
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have any film......

  21. #21
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Actually every time I've made it to the first or second round of selection despite what I have written. I don't write it to "get out of jury duty" I write it because it's the truth.

    O2
    Always a bridesmaid and never a bride..... Go figure.

  22. #22
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Always a bridesmaid and never a bride..... Go figure.
    I can tell you clearly why in one case: It was a child endangerment case. The moment the prosecution found out I didn't have children, I was out of there faster than you can say "Trial based on emotions, not facts".

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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