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Thread: Open Carry at 18, Purchase at 21 Questions

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    Open Carry at 18, Purchase at 21 Questions

    Being 19 years old I know that I am unable to purchase a handgun. I have looked at the "New to OC" thread but am still left with these questions.

    Am I still able to open carry a handgun that is owned by someone else?
    Can I open carry a rifle or a shotgun?
    Can I receive a handgun as a gift and own it that way?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarry18 View Post
    Being 19 years old I know that I am unable to purchase a handgun. I have looked at the "New to OC" thread but am still left with these questions.

    Am I still able to open carry a handgun that is owned by someone else?
    Can I open carry a rifle or a shotgun?
    Can I receive a handgun as a gift and own it that way?
    Who says you cannot purchase a handgun until you are 21? Are you confusing yourself about the law that says a person must be 21 to purchase from a FFL? Unless I misremember, private sales are permitted in Wisconsin.

    You can receive, thus possess (own) a handgun as a gift, at 19. Actually, you could have done it at 18.

    The carry of rifles or shotguns, at any age, is controlled by an array of laws that are usually divided between the criminal code and the rules regulating hunting. Additionally, there are probably local ordinances that also have to be considered - for example even if it were legal in the rest of Wisconsin to OC a rifle or shotgun it probably is illegal in Madison.

    I'm sure a Cheesehead will show up with cites to Wisconsin law. Of course, you could go look it up yourself and then ask if how you interpret what it says is in line with everybody else's understanding. For some reason things seem to stick better if the person asking the question has to go look up the answer themself.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    You can purchase a handgun from a private seller when you are 18-20. You can even be gifted one from your parents.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...sess-a-handgun
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    In Wisconsin you can own/possess a handgun at 18. You just cannot buy one from a licensed dealer until you're 21, but that's because of federal laws.

    You can open carry a handgun at 18.


    BUT.......! And this is very important:

    If you are within 1000 feet of a school one must have a valid concealed carry license in order to carry, including open carry. And in Wisconsin one must be 21 in order to get a CCL. It sounds stupid that one needs a concealed carry license to open carry, but it's because of the stupid school zone federal law.

    So if you're open carrying without a CCL, be absolutely certain you are not in a school zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    ...
    If you are within 1000 feet of a school one must have a valid concealed carry license in order to carry, including open carry. And in Wisconsin one must be 21 in order to get a CCL. It sounds stupid that one needs a concealed carry license to open carry, but it's because of the stupid school zone federal law.

    So if you're open carrying without a CCL, be absolutely certain you are not in a school zone.
    That's not correct. Here are the citations of state and federal laws that pertain to Open Carry, in a Gun Free School Zone:

    This is the Wisconsin Gun Free School Zone statute:
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    The Wisconsin statute refers to Federal GFSZ Law. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-...p44-sec922.pdf


    948.605  Gun-free school zones.

    (1)  Definitions. In this section:
    _ (a) "Encased" has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    _ (ac) "Firearm" does not include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
    _ (am) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    _ (b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    _ (c) "School zone" means any of the following:
    ___ 1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    ___ 2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

    (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    _ (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.

    _ (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
    ___ 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    ___ 1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    ___ 2m. A state-certified commission warden acting in his or her official capacity.
    ___ 3. That is not loaded and is:
    ____ a. Encased; or
    ____ b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    ___ 3m. A person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the school forest under s. 120.13 (38).
    This is a portion of Federal code that is referred to by the Wisconsin statute.

    18USC922(q)(2)(B)(i) on private property not part of school
    grounds;
    Review of the above indicates that there is a general prohibition from possessing a firearm at a place that is known to be in or on the grounds of a K-12 school or within 1,000 ft of a K-12 school.

    There are a number of exceptions to this misdemeanor/felony, but as far as Open or Concealed carry are concerned, basically 2 exceptions are pertinent.

    * Allowed to carry a firearm on private property not part of school grounds

    * Allowed to carry a handgun in the "doughnut" that surrounds the school grounds for 1,000 ft, if the individual is a Wisconsin CCL licensee or an out-of-state Concealed Carry Licensee from an approved state.

    Of course, as always if carrying open or concealed, you must comply with all the other appropriate laws as well.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 08-18-2012 at 11:51 PM.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    That's not correct.

    * Allowed to carry a firearm on private property not part of school grounds
    Other than forgetting to mention private property, everything I posted was correct..

    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    * Allowed to carry a handgun in the "doughnut" that surrounds the school grounds for 1,000 ft, if the individual is a Wisconsin CCL licensee or an out-of-state Concealed Carry Licensee from an approved state.
    That's exactly what I said. And we're talking about someone under 21 who cannot get a WI CCL.

    Everything I posted was correct other than forgetting to mention private property. Your post is doing the OP a disservice by confusing them.

    opencarry18, you are over 18 and can legally possess/open carry a handgun in Wisconsin. But if you are not on private property be d**n sure you are not within a school zone.

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    One of the reasons, that I try to provide the legal citations for questions that involve Wisconsin and/or U.S. laws, is that CITE TO AUTHORITY is a rule of this website:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    •(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    A benefit of this rule, is helping to separate verifiable facts, from opinions. It has the side benefit of educating members here as to how to defend/explain what you do or don't do, to those with different opinions, including instructors and members of law enforcement, that have NOT been well-trained.

    -----------------------------------------

    One of the very unusual features of WI 948.605 "Gun−free school zones." is in this subsection here:

    948.605(2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    _ (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    ...

    In order to be in violation of this law, one of the requirements is that "the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe," that they are in a school zone. Because of this clause, if you don't have a WI/out-of-state CCL, you do not need to be paranoid or intimidated about possibly being near a school zone that you are honestly not aware of.
    ---------

    to opencarry18,

    I hope I did not do you a disservice, by indicating that you do not violate the U.S. or WI GFSZ law, to open carry in the 1,000 foot doughnut around a K-12 school when on private property.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 08-19-2012 at 10:00 PM.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    In order to be in violation of this law, one of the requirements is that "the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe," that they are in a school zone. Because of this clause, if you don't have a WI/out-of-state CCL, you do not need to be paranoid or intimidated about possibly being near a school zone that you are honestly not aware of.
    You're trying to poo poo this and it won't help the OP.

    The school zone law puts the burden upon the carrier. No cop, judge, or jury is going to believe one didn't have cause to believe there was a school nearby if one is carrying in a city.

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Why wait? Buy a handgun via a private sale and start carrying whenever you want! I bought a few that way before my 21st. Still do if I see a good deal come up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarry18 View Post
    Being 19 years old I know that I am unable to purchase a handgun. I have looked at the "New to OC" thread but am still left with these questions.

    Am I still able to open carry a handgun that is owned by someone else?
    Can I open carry a rifle or a shotgun?
    Can I receive a handgun as a gift and own it that way?
    It seems to me you need to educate yourself with our laws better. This site is regarding OC of handguns. IMHO, open carrying a long gun is stupid as all hell it isn't tactically a good idea. The whole point of carrying a handgun is for self defense in a small but awesome package.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    It seems to me you need to educate yourself with our laws better. This site is regarding OC of handguns. IMHO, open carrying a long gun is stupid as all hell it isn't tactically a good idea. The whole point of carrying a handgun is for self defense in a small but awesome package.
    Just like open carry in general is "tactically stupid?"... He didn't ask for an opinion, he asked if it were legal.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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