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Thread: OT: Where to get Black Powder in WA?

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    OT: Where to get Black Powder in WA?

    The subject line says it all... where can I get some 4F (FFFF) Black Powder here in WA.

    No... I can't use Pyrodex or Triple 7 or any of the other Black Powder substitudes. I would of course prefer something in my neck of the woods (Snohomish/North King Counties), but pretty much anywhere beats paying a hazmat fee for a single 1lb can of powder!

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    I get my BP from here.
    https://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm
    The price includes haz-mat and shipping.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Most gun shops I've been to sell it.

    That pawn shop/gun store Sky Valley Traders ? should still carry it. I believe wholesale sports carries it.
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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Most gun shops I've been to sell it.

    That pawn shop/gun store Sky Valley Traders ? should still carry it. I believe wholesale sports carries it.
    I've checked out most of the local gun shops including Sams, Kesselrings, Wholesale Sports, and Cabelas. All have Black Powder Substitudes such as Pyodex or Triple 7, but none have the real thing.

    I don't need a lot, a pound will last me several years. I can easily get it mail order, but the Hazmat fees make that impractical... $27 in fees for a $15 bottle of powder.

    EDIT:
    Just found out that Kesselrings may actually have some Goex FFFF in stock. It's $25 intead of $15 from Grafs, but..... no Hazmat. Of course that means a trip to Skagit County, but now I have another exuse to drive back up to Kesselrings again.
    Last edited by Right Wing Wacko; 08-19-2012 at 12:44 PM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    I've checked out most of the local gun shops including Sams, Kesselrings, Wholesale Sports, and Cabelas. All have Black Powder Substitudes such as Pyodex or Triple 7, but none have the real thing.

    I don't need a lot, a pound will last me several years. I can easily get it mail order, but the Hazmat fees make that impractical... $27 in fees for a $15 bottle of powder.

    EDIT:
    Just found out that Kesselrings may actually have some Goex FFFF in stock. It's $25 intead of $15 from Grafs, but..... no Hazmat. Of course that means a trip to Skagit County, but now I have another exuse to drive back up to Kesselrings again.
    I've found that I normally have to ask for it at the gun counter. One store had F FF and FFF. If you've found some FFFF then you're lucky. 25 per pound sounds about right too.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: OT: Where to get Black Powder in WA?

    True a lot of places do not display it but you should be able to find it at any gun shop. Whole sale sports in silverdale has a ton of it you just have to ask for it
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    True a lot of places do not display it but you should be able to find it at any gun shop. Whole sale sports in silverdale has a ton of it you just have to ask for it
    When I went to Wholesale Sports, the kid operating the gun counter said they had some, but came out with a bottle of Pyrodex and tried to convince me that was the same thing as real gun powder... fortunaly I knew better. He then told me that was all they had. This was at the WS is Burlington about a month or so ago.

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    Most gunshops are no longer carring BP as the insurance is much higher, and the state has a different license for it as it is considered an explosive, not a propellant.
    I have 40# in a secure magazine (a fireworks co I used to work for)
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 08-19-2012 at 11:39 PM.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    as it is considered an explosive, not a propellant.
    That's really weird. If black powder is an explosive, then so is modern smokeless powder, and even more so than the black powder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    That's really weird. If black powder is an explosive, then so is modern smokeless powder, and even more so than the black powder.
    Wrong... BP has a burn rate that is MUCH MUCH faster than smokeless. Lay down a trail of ANY smokeless and a trail of BP of the same length and depth. light them and then tell me smokeless is an explosive.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Wrong... BP has a burn rate that is MUCH MUCH faster than smokeless. Lay down a trail of ANY smokeless and a trail of BP of the same length and depth. light them and then tell me smokeless is an explosive.
    BP is also much easier to ignite than composite powders, especially 4F which is what I am looking for.
    Last edited by Right Wing Wacko; 08-20-2012 at 02:23 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    That's really weird. If black powder is an explosive, then so is modern smokeless powder, and even more so than the black powder.
    No. You need to study up on your powders. Smokeless powders are propellants, and have varying burn rates. Some burn faster, and many burn slower. You use faster powders in pistols, generally speaking, slower powders in pistol magnums, and much slower powders in rifle loads. That is a very simplistic explanation.

    Black powder is an explosive pure and simple. Go do some google work.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Wrong... BP has a burn rate that is MUCH MUCH faster than smokeless. Lay down a trail of ANY smokeless and a trail of BP of the same length and depth. light them and then tell me smokeless is an explosive.
    You're measuring the OPEN AIR burn rate which is not the same a compact/pressure burn rate.

    BP has a lower pressure for it's burn though. You have to be careful if you use modern powders in a BP gun. Modern powders can generate over 100,000 PSI. I can load a 'hot' BP load into a modern rifle and the pressures are going to be in the safe range.

    http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_...p_burning.html
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    No. You need to study up on your powders.
    So do you. A little physics wouldn't hurt either.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    Smokeless powders are propellants
    So is black powder, and for the exact same reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    Black powder is an explosive pure and simple. Go do some google work.
    So is smokeless powder, for the same reason and in the same way. When was the last time you saw an open air burn of black powder explode? You haven't, because it's not an explosive by itself. It must be contained in order to explode. Just like smokeless powder. If smokeless powder didn't explode when contained, guns would go "fizz" instead of "bang".

    If you put 40 grains of modern smokeless powder into a black powder firearm designed for 40 grains of black powder, you may keep all your fingers if you are very lucky. But it's doubtful. And worse injuries are very possible.

    The simple fact is they are both propellants. If one is an explosive, then they both are.

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    Ffff

    Puyallup valley muzzle loader supply has ffff in stock if you find yourself in the puyallup area it is priced at 24.50 lb FYI
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