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Thread: GRNC Alert 8-18-12: Johnston County Votes Your Rights Away

  1. #1
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    GRNC Alert 8-18-12: Johnston County Votes Your Rights Away

    Grass Roots North Carolina, P.O. Box 10665, Raleigh, NC 27605

    919-664-8565, www.grnc.org, GRNC Alert Hotline: (919) 562-4137



    GRNC Alert 8-18-12

    Johnston County Votes Your Rights Away

    Our Home Page | About Us | Join GRNC | Contact Us



    In This Issue
    Johnston Co. Anti-gun Noise Ordinance

    Immediate Action



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    Unanimous Vote Sweeps Away Progress




    On Monday, August 6th, the Johnston County Board of Commissioners silently adopted over-reaching new noise ordinances designed to, among other things, silence virtually all gunfire within the County. The only exemptions allowed for under the new proposals are for hunting, self-defense, and the odd circumstances “pursuant to lawful directions of law-enforcement officers”. With only these exemptions in place, virtually all other forms of gunfire could subject you to a Class III misdemeanor charge under the new laws!

    Despite reaching a reasonable agreement last year between the County and residents and forming a policy based on mutual respect, the Johnston County Board of Commissioners this time swept away this agreement and voted unanimously to adopt the new laws without your input! Only random chance prevented these new proposals from becoming law in August, which was due to one of the Commissioners not being present to vote. Due to state law, the proposals now require a second vote with all Commissioners being present.






    Last chance to be heard!

    The second vote is scheduled for at the next Board of Commissioners meeting on September 4th at 6:00pm. If the proposal receives a majority vote, it will then become the law of the land in Johnston County. This is your one chance to attend the meeting and have your voice heard! All concerned residents of Johnston County should attend the meeting in order to insure that your rights are not discarded by the Board of Commissioners.

    You can also let your displeasure be known by contacting the individual Johnston County Commissioners prior to the next scheduled meeting through either email or by phone using the contact information provided below. Although they may be attempting to pass these proposals in an attempt to quell the actions of one or two County residents, they have to know that sweeping away the rights of all County residents is not the way to do it! Your respectful, yet resolved voice will go a long way in letting them know that you will not stand idle and let them vote your rights out of existence.





    IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED!

    You need you to do three things:

    Email and call the Johnston County Commissioners using the contact information provided below

    Attend the Next Schedule Board of Commissioners Meeting on September 4th, 2012 at 6:00pm

    Support GRNC!: As we move closer to the national and local elections this Fall, GRNC needs your support to help combat the efforts against your rights as gun owners. Join or renew your membership! http://www.grnc.org/join-grnc/join-grnc-online
    CONTACT INFO




    Johnston County Board of Commissioners:


    Allen L. Mims, Jr, Chairman: 919-553-3081 amimsjr@gmail.com

    Jeffrey P. Carver, Vice Chairman: 919-553-8922 jeffreypcarver@gmail.com

    Wade M. Stewart: 919-965-7500 commissioners@johnstonnc.com

    Cookie Pope: 919-934-6187 cookie@mastfirm.com

    W. Ray Woodall: 919-631-3058 ray.woodall@johnstonnc.com

    DeVan Barbour: 919-938-2050 dbar609669@aol.com

    Tony Braswell: 919-669-6598 tony@triangleeastrealty.com


    Copy and paste email list:


    amimsjr@gmail.com, jeffreypcarver@gmail.com, commissioners@johnstonnc.com, cookie@mastfirm.com, ray.woodall@johnstonnc.com, dbar609669@aol.com, tony@triangleeastrealty.com


    DELIVER THIS MESSAGE



    Suggested Subject: "No Misguided Noise Ordinance"



    Dear Commissioner,

    I have recently learned of your attempt to circumvent my rights by virtue of your recent vote on proposed noise ordinances. I am deeply troubled that, if passed, these proposals will absolutely limit my ability to shoot on my own land with only a very limited set of exemptions allowed for.

    Despite reaching a compromise last year and passing a set of laws that was conducive to good natured relations between all parties involved, you have recently decided to vote for sweeping new proposals without my input which will severely limit my rights as a gun owner who resides in or visits your County. By passing these proposals, you will limit my ability to shoot recreationally unless I happen to be hunting, defending myself, or under the direction of law enforcement officers, under the threat of being charged with a Class III Misdemeanor.

    Even if a limited number of residents have presented problems, severely limiting the rights of all County residents is not an acceptable resolution. To sweep away our rights and take away our ability to shoot on our own lands while maintaining civil respect to all residents of the County is simply unacceptable.

    I strongly urge you to reconsider your position on these proposals and work together with all residents of Johnston County to form a more reasonable solution to any problems which may be occurring as a result of the noise related to lawful gunfire.

    I will be closely monitoring all progress in this matter via GRNC Alerts.

    Sincerely,



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  2. #2
    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    http://www.change.org/petitions/john...term=26669232#

    Please sign in to the above hyperlink and sign the petition saying NO to the Johnston County Commisioners.

    Also, on Facebook, another petition under the name "Say "NO" to Johnston County new gun ordinances." (put that name in the search engine to find it).
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    post ordinance or link to it?

  4. #4
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    post ordinance or link to it?
    Here is a link to the proposed changes that was voted on on Aug 6th.

    http://www.johnstonnc.com/files/boar...eAmendment.pdf

    What you see in black is the current ordinance. What you see in red but lined out is proposed changes to current language, and what you see in red without being lined out is proposed new language.

    The vote was unanimous for approval but state law requires a second vote to make it law due to one Commissioner not being present to vote in Aug. That second vote will happen on Sep 4th at 6pm, at the Board of Commissioners regularly scheduled meeting.

    I think there is a "final copy" of the ordinances that was approved once the first vote was taken. It's identical to this one without all the lines and red letters. Basically a cleaned up version, but I can't find it online just yet.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 08-20-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Actually this story does an excellent job of explaining just what is going on in Johnston county, and why the Board of Commissioners thinks that making a blanket set of laws is a good idea:

    http://www.theherald-nc.com/2012/08/...shing-for.html

    The story explains that this whole thing is about one person in Johnston county that is supposedly annoying his neighbors with gunfire intentionally. But, the Sheriff's department can do little about it. Instead of dealing with the one person, the Johnston County Board of Commissioners feels that silencing everyone in the county is the best approach. Admittedly, one of them thinks it may not even work. Really? Then why adopt it?

    Now there's a few ways to look at the situation, imo.

    1. Would the new ordinance stop the one person in the county that all of these changes are being created for? Maybe, maybe not.

    2. Could these new changes subject others to a Class III Misdemeanor if the laws were used beyond the scope of the intent behind them? Sure thing.

    3. Will they be used in such a manner? Who knows.

    4. Will non-gun shooting residents use the law to their advantage forcing the Sheriff's department to cite people? You betcha.

    5. Is it right for the Board of Commissioners to wipe away the agreements made under last year's "Good Neighbor" ordinances to deal with one single person in the county? No.

    I get it, the Board of Commissioners is tired of dealing with complaints of residents because one alleged ****** is pestering his neighbors with his gunfire sounds. I can understand their frustrations. I can even understand the frustrations of the Sheriff's department because they don't feel they have enough legal backing to do anything about the numerous calls coming in to deal with this. But what happens if the alleged ****** ups and moves out of the county or the state for whatever reason? What is the county then left with? You got it, a serious set of laws designed to let people who decide they don't want to hear gunfire, no matter the circumstances or time of day, have something to sic LEOs on you with.

    Simply put: Punishing and restricting an entire county's worth of responsible citizens to deal with one alleged ****** is NOT the way to deal with this matter.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 08-20-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    rotorhead...see how much easier it is to quantify the johnston country situation instead of putting out the nondescript GRNC alert which didn't provide the substance you just stated...

    wabbit
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  7. #7
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    rotorhead...see how much easier it is to quantify the johnston country situation instead of putting out the nondescript GRNC alert which didn't provide the substance you just stated...

    wabbit
    I fail to see how this GRNC alert was nondescript.

    All I did in my last post was expand my opinion of the situation using the wonderful tool of unlimited space. The idea of this latest attempt by the Johnston County Board of Commissioners being the result of their dealing with one individual of the county is only one angle of possibility. There are other possibilities out there, too.

    It appears that GRNC simply stated what happened and a few ways for gun owners to deal with the situation. Do you think their position or description of the situation is somehow errant?

  8. #8
    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    rotorhead...see how much easier it is to quantify the johnston country situation instead of putting out the nondescript GRNC alert which didn't provide the substance you just stated...

    wabbit
    Were there any other organizations that attempted to inform the public about this? I found out about this only through the GRNC email. I certainly didn't hear about it from you. I really don't get your beef with them. There's nothing worse than infighting like this.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Infighting? Surely you jest…this is continuing active criticism about an organization who insists on crying wolf all the time just to inflame…

    Whenever an organization, I don’t care…your choice so pick your organizational flavor of the month – NRA ILA, or GRNC, or VCDL, or WVCDL, or Buckeye Firearms Association or, or…(at this point I am sure you get the general idea) puts out ‘sky is falling if members don’t act immediately’ type of inflammatory rhetoric the message should be critically examined by those members who are expected to act. If the rhetoric is exactly that then member(s) should be criticizing the organization for releasing document(s) for what they are…inflammatory rhetoric!!

    Let’s see recent specific examples:
    GRNC 8-6-12’s alert objective was – oh yes per the poster rotorhead “…purely informational but IDK…” BTW I was impressed w/Sen. Hagan’s office who sent a truly an unremarkable political response…she can now claim to have correspondence w/OC membership.

    GRNC 8-18-12’s alert objective centers an ‘over reaching new noise ordinances designed to silence virtually all gunfire within the county.’ Yet according to Rotorhead’s further explanation…(THANKS BTW) it seems it is not against the gun owners of Johnston county but rather singling out ONE individual Johnston County!!

    As I am being chastised for criticizing the GRNC, I must point out my comment to rotorhead for posting the quantifying and discussion points of the situation…kudos. Instead if you reread the nondescript GRNC alert it was apparently designed to inflame and start a email flood to commissioners by GRNC membership ranting about a in proper noise ordinance with the GRNC membership not knowing the full story or rationale behind the ordinance and who would have looked uninformed in their complaint and therefore ineffective.

    Think how much better the commissioners might react to inbound email IF the GRNC alert had the background information rotorhead provided… for example:

    ’Commissioners…blah blah blah you are passing this noise ordinance to control ONE county citizen. Well, this county citizen doesn’t think you are thinking this through properly…blah blah blah. Sincerely concerned Johnston county citizen.'

    So dmatting, et al., forgive me as I am sorry if I apply critical thinking and express concern(s) for discussion to nondescript inflammatory rhetoric crying wolf all the time.

    Finally, shame on organizational member(s) for being complacent and not applying the same critical oversight to the material their ‘beloved’ and favorite group (see group listing above) puts out especially when they see it is unjustifiably inflammatory…organizations expect their members to hollar and react loudly to their message…sorry member(s) should also loudly complain to keep the importance of the organizational message from being diluted.

    Wabbit
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  10. #10
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Don't use my assessment of one reporter's take on the situation as a means to justify your continued fight against GRNC. All I did was post what the Herald reported concerning the matter. It wasn't done to debunk what GRNC put out, it was done to provide yet another angle to a situation that's been brewing in Johnston County for some time. My comments on the story were just that: comments on a story.

    If there is truth to the story, and they shut this one guy down with their little noise ordinances, do you really think they will simply tuck those laws back into a chest and bury them afterwards? Or do you think, perhaps, that they will use them more and more, again and again, whenever some neighbor decides they simply don't want to hear gunfire, no matter what time of day it is or under what circumstances? Don't you think just for a minute that the laws they are trying to pass may, at some point, be used against whoever it is they feel like? That's what GRNC is trying to say, albeit not in the same fashion you would choose. It seems like they are also trying to say that passing these laws is not an acceptable way to deal with one person, if indeed that is the situation.

    My comment on the GRNC alert is this: I'm glad someone out there is doing something about they way gun owners are treated in this state. The NRA isn't very concerned with us, until such time as yet another GRNC victory seems assured- then they add their name to the victory party guest list.

    Who else out there is organizing people and alerting them to these things going on. You?

    Who else volunteers their time to craft legislation, watch it as it passes through the garbage disposal of the NCGA, and then nails politicians when promises are broken. You?

    You don't like sensationalism? Fine. Try this experiment:

    Come here, wabbit, I want to give you ten dollars for free.

    Come here, wabbit, I want to give you ten dollars for free.

    Which one worked better to get the message out?

    But let's cut all the excess baggage out of this discussion, shall we? Let's get down to why you really don't like GRNC...

    A while back you asked someone for some detailed information that GRNC was not willing to give you over an open forum, nor through it's PM service. Some random guy (you) who is critical of GRNC made a request for detailed information and he was denied it. Ever since then, you've been hounding them for anything they do.

    Really? An extremely vocal and effective gun rights group wouldn't give a critic of theirs some information concerning private emails and expense accounts? Why, they must be shrouded in secrecy.....they must be the second coming of the Illuminati!!!!

    Meh, I'll simply continue to receive my GRNC alerts, thank you. Maybe one day GRNC will "wake up" and realize their methods are way out of whack. Perhaps if they were to only hold up their accomplishments up against yours side by side, they would see that you are far more effective as a gun rights activist.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 08-21-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    You know it is always amazing to watch individual(s) go on defence whenever they believe their cherished ideal in ‘an extremely vocal and effective gun rights group’ is challenged. What is truly disappointing is to listen to the same olde tired rhetoric used over and over for the defence of group.

    Do you folks actually listen to what you are saying?? Throughout the years history has shown ppl have followed blindly and chastised those that question.

    Regrettably perceptions of my motive(s) are quite enlightening. Sadly, quite wrong of course!! I do find it quite thought-provoking to note how I am now apparently involved in seeking private emails and expense accounts over an open forum? Truly! Where did that that yarn began mate??

    I am guilty of nothing more than raising critical questions which seems to cause quite a bit of stress for everyone. Don't you find that a bit overall concerning? Yet my reputation apparently grows w/o any intervention from me…next I suppose I will be the leader of a bloodless coup.

    As I mentioned you should be pleased as the methodology you utilized with an explanation vice GRNC’s the ‘sky is falling’ obtuse rhetoric inspired informed conversation about the subject which is the object of a forum isn’t? Then your audience can make an informed decision to contact the appropriate ppl involved.

    I find it quite interesting to note tho it would appear even you are acquiescing that perhaps there might be better ways to accomplish the goal of getting ppl informed about the injustices being perpetrated against the citizens of NC.

    Wabbit

    Ps: sorry, ten dollars isn't enough to stop asking critical questions about the sky is falling epistles?

    pss: don't you find it interesting you have no distractors when you post on NCGO site?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 08-21-2012 at 11:01 PM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    Here is a link to the proposed changes that was voted on on Aug 6th.

    http://www.johnstonnc.com/files/boar...eAmendment.pdf
    Thanks for the link. The law is too vague to apprise people as to what they can or cannot do; it would be struck down due to this constitutional violation of due process.

  13. #13
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    You know it is always amazing to watch individual(s) go on defence whenever they believe their cherished ideal in ‘an extremely vocal and effective gun rights group’ is challenged. What is truly disappointing is to listen to the same olde tired rhetoric used over and over for the defence of group.

    Do you folks actually listen to what you are saying?? Throughout the years history has shown ppl have followed blindly and chastised those that question.

    Regrettably perceptions of my motive(s) are quite enlightening. Sadly, quite wrong of course!! I do find it quite thought-provoking to note how I am now apparently involved in seeking private emails and expense accounts over an open forum? Truly! Where did that that yarn began mate??

    I am guilty of nothing more than raising critical questions which seems to cause quite a bit of stress for everyone. Don't you find that a bit overall concerning? Yet my reputation apparently grows w/o any intervention from me…next I suppose I will be the leader of a bloodless coup.

    As I mentioned you should be pleased as the methodology you utilized with an explanation vice GRNC’s the ‘sky is falling’ obtuse rhetoric inspired informed conversation about the subject which is the object of a forum isn’t? Then your audience can make an informed decision to contact the appropriate ppl involved.

    I find it quite interesting to note tho it would appear even you are acquiescing that perhaps there might be better ways to accomplish the goal of getting ppl informed about the injustices being perpetrated against the citizens of NC.

    Wabbit

    Ps: sorry, ten dollars isn't enough to stop asking critical questions about the sky is falling epistles?

    pss: don't you find it interesting you have no distractors when you post on NCGO site?
    Ahh so that's it: Martyrdom.

    Poor oppressed wabbit is not getting his due recognition for fighting the corporate greed of an over-bearing, over-reaching organization...something like that?

    As for the origins of your real opposition to GRNC, I believe it started somewhere around here, or soon before. You're still mad that cricketdad won't give you, an anonymous person on the internet, sensitive information lol. That's what this is all about.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-and-a-warning

  14. #14
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Mate, at least you are attempting to follow the appropriate script when dealing with those that challenge and tarnish the ideal…

    BTW thanks finding the link…tho I am surprised you posted it since in # 11, # 13, you articulate your support about my premise about the sky is falling mentality of GRNC’s rhetoric laden alerts. There might be hope yet for you to begin seeing things from a critical prospective.

    However I must take exception to your comment I am upset they about cricketdad’s comment…re-reading the olde thread... cricketdad and others provided quite a bit of information about GRNC and the data they have mined to members of this forum - NOT ME!. (however as mentioned in my response... no where is it mentioned my 'seeking emails or expense accounts' as alluded to by you in this thread.) In follow up posts I do not mention anything about it but rather concern about how is GRNC protecting 85K worth of email information. (if you remember in late 2011 there was data leaks (email lists) from several big institutions). Which have yet to be addressed per se?

    Again, re-reading the olde thread it is interesting to note there were posters who seemed to question GRNC’s sky is falling rhetoric but then dropped out of the discussion when ppl came to defend.

    Wabbit

    Ps: martyrdom? So now you are regaling and equating GRNC to a religious icon?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 08-22-2012 at 10:04 AM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  15. #15
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    Mate, at least you are attempting to follow the appropriate script when dealing with those that challenge and tarnish the ideal…

    BTW thanks finding the link…tho I am surprised you posted it since in # 11, # 13, you articulate your support about my premise about the sky is falling mentality of GRNC’s rhetoric laden alerts. There might be hope yet for you to begin seeing things from a critical prospective.

    However I must take exception to your comment I am upset they about cricketdad’s comment…re-reading the olde thread... cricketdad and others provided quite a bit of information about GRNC and the data they have mined to members of this forum - NOT ME!. (however as mentioned in my response... no where is it mentioned my 'seeking emails or expense accounts' as alluded to by you in this thread.) In follow up posts I do not mention anything about it but rather concern about how is GRNC protecting 85K worth of email information. (if you remember in late 2011 there was data leaks (email lists) from several big institutions). Which have yet to be addressed per se?

    Again, re-reading the olde thread it is interesting to note there were posters who seemed to question GRNC’s sky is falling rhetoric but then dropped out of the discussion when ppl came to defend.

    Wabbit

    Ps: martyrdom? So now you are regaling and equating GRNC to a religious icon?
    lol

    Yes! A perfect religious icon, wrapped in purity and strength!

    In fact, for my complete vision of GRNC's absolute deity, please revisit the movie "Conan the Barbarian". Toward the end, Conan arrives at the temple to see devoted followers in robes holding candles, all waiting for that moment when Thulsa Doom comes out. Suddenly a hush covers the crowd as the god speaks....

    This scene compares little to my absolute and total dedication to GRNC and it's Dear Leader.

    But, now that your inane post script statement was matched by my own, I'll simply let this go by saying there's not much more I can say about the situation that hasn't been said already.

    GRNC is out there doing their thing, and for that I'm glad. They will never be perfect, but at least someone is doing something out there. I don't mind paying my annual dues to them because I feel that they will use the money as responsibly as they can, based on my own personal correspondence with the President of GRNC and other members. Honestly, there really isn't too many other organizations that are able and willing to do what they do for North Carolina's gun owners.

    I won't be so idiotic to say that I agree with everything they will ever do or have ever done. No man, woman, or group will ever attain that magic status for me. I have praised their efforts in the past and I have disagreed with their methods here and there. I've also disagreed with some of their positions, but when I had objections with them I have brought those objections to them in the form of emails, and every single one of them has been answered sufficiently.

    That doesn't mean I've always agreed with their response, either. It just means that they are accessible if you take the time to honestly put forth the effort (meaning write a simple email) to make contact.

    With that, it's time for the proverbial e-handshake and I'll consider my part of the discussion completed.

    They will never be perfect, but holy hell, at least they are doing something.

    I'll leave it, once again, with an open list where you can fill in the blanks with names of state, local, or national organizations that are doing more for the gun owners of North Carolina in terms of legislation and activism.

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

    Good day, Sir.

  16. #16
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    670
    Mate, as in all things in life, we have to do what is comfortable for our own peace of mind to sleep at night. I believe our conversations have been civil which is, at times, a rarity on this venue.

    Do not abrogate your critical thinking capabilities by getting emotionally wrapped up in any cause as the cause will not be there for your hour of need! I shall bid you adieu wishing you well, asking you to remember to enjoy life... 'tis too short otherwise!

    wabbit
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

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