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Thread: Virginia's Emergency Custody Statute - Who Is next?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Virginia's Emergency Custody Statute - Who Is next?

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    § 37.2-808. Emergency custody; issuance and execution of order.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+37.2-808

    § 37.2-809. Involuntary temporary detention; issuance and execution of order.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+37.2-809
    When are you considered to be under arrest in VA?

    In Missouri:
    Arrest.

    544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5440000180.HTM
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It's a disturbing story but isn't really OC related.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    In VA AFAIK it's not an arrest per se (not a criminal matter) and you have no appeal. You are entirely subject to the medical authority once the court order is given. Welcome to Hell!

    To make matters worse, I as a Paramedic can make a spot determination of behavioral altered mental status (I better be able to justify it though) and sedate you against your will for transport without a police officer or court order, and I think the Doctor can do pretty much the same thing.

    Patients then get evaluated by the Community Service Board before they get admitted to a psych floor/hospital. They will get a court order at that point if necessary.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 08-21-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    It's not an arrest and you have no appeal. You are entirely subject to the medical authority once the court order is given. Welcome to Hell!
    While not an OC issue I suppose it is indeed a gun concern because I'm already hearing rumblings from legislators about tightening up the mental evaluations for gun purchases in the Commonwealth.

    That's going to translate into another gun show bill(s) and God knows what other silliness they'll think up before Fall.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    In Missouri we have a statute that defines what a arrest is as I cited above. Does VA have a similar statute?

    Though, you are right Mr. nap, my OP is not germane to OC....sorry.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    In Missouri we have a statute that defines what a arrest is as I cited above. Does VA have a similar statute?

    Though, you are right Mr. nap, my OP is not germane to OC....sorry.
    Keep reading, I changed my mind.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    In Missouri we have a statute that defines what a arrest is as I cited above. Does VA have a similar statute?

    Though, you are right Mr. nap, my OP is not germane to OC....sorry.
    In Virginia, you are under arrest when the cop says you are, or when a reasonable person in similar circumstances would believe that they are not free to go on about their business. There are a whole lot of laws regarding the subject of "arrest" http://leg1.state.va.us/000/lst/LS437509.HTM but except for "arrest under civil process" there are no definitions to let you know with certainty that you are or are not.

    As for the specific case, I obviously do not have as many facts as the court is in possession of but it does seem to be an over-reaction in the name of security theater. Either that or my understanding of what constitutes a specic threat is significantly different from the definition currently being used. I used to deal with seriously disturbed (crazy is really a better word) folks who said a whole lot worse but neither the Communit Mental Health nor the judges would lock them up for basically being pissed off about the condition of the country and the people who made it that way.

    If the people who think they run the country are afraid of the citizens there is probably a good reason why. But until a specific threat is made it's all hot air and rhetoric that is protected by the First Amendment.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Thanks skid.

    Your link returned this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I read his Facebook page and unless the Feds have something else this is all horse hockey. Did I agree with everything he posted...nope....but he made no overt threats and I have heard much much worse come out the mouth of the presidents pastor and nothing was done to him. It is disturbing though that they can just snatch someone call it a mental health issue and then keep them for what seems like indefinite term with very little recourse. If he showed up at the hospital and was fuming mad they would have said he was disturbed, if he showed up and was cool as a cucumber they would have said a normal person would have been angry. They can say anything they darn well please and he has no recourse.

    As for what this has to do with open carry. Well I imagine because of this he will have a very hard time obtaining firearms in the future. So by misusing a mental health statute they are effectively nullifying this mans second amendment rights......very scary y'all.
    Last edited by MamabearCali; 08-22-2012 at 11:21 AM.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    I read his Facebook page and unless the Feds have something else this is all horse hockey. Did I agree with everything he posted...nope....but he made no overt threats and I have heard much much worse come out the mouth of the presidents pastor and nothing was done to him. It is disturbing though that they can just snatch someone call it a mental health issue and then keep them for what seems like indefinite term with very little recourse. If he showed up at the hospital and was fuming mad they would have said he was disturbed, if he showed up and was cool as a cucumber they would have said a normal person would have been angry. They can say anything they darn well please and he has no recourse.

    As for what this has to do with open carry. Well I imagine because of this he will have a very hard time obtaining firearms in the future. So by misusing a mental health statute they are effectively nullifying this mans second amendment rights......very scary y'all.
    I bet he gets flagged and can't buy any firearms due to mental heath issues even if he doesn't have any.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    I read his Facebook page and unless the Feds have something else this is all horse hockey. Did I agree with everything he posted...nope....but he made no overt threats and I have heard much much worse come out the mouth of the presidents pastor and nothing was done to him. It is disturbing though that they can just snatch someone call it a mental health issue and then keep them for what seems like indefinite term with very little recourse. If he showed up at the hospital and was fuming mad they would have said he was disturbed, if he showed up and was cool as a cucumber they would have said a normal person would have been angry. They can say anything they darn well please and he has no recourse.

    As for what this has to do with open carry. Well I imagine because of this he will have a very hard time obtaining firearms in the future. So by misusing a mental health statute they are effectively nullifying this mans second amendment rights......very scary y'all.
    It all depends on who you are, not what you say. What he said wasn't much worse than this:


    http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/...bring-on-biden
    RNC Chair: Bring On Biden

    Priebus brings the “brass knuckles.” Secret Service agents overheard discussing Biden's trip on a flight to Tampa.

    "I'm a big believer in: if they punch us, we put on the brass knuckles and punch back," he added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I bet he gets flagged and can't buy any firearms due to mental heath issues even if he doesn't have any.
    Wasn't this addressed in the Legislative Session after Cho's VT shooting spree when they were looking heavily at mental health issues.
    i looked but can't find the info i want. i found HB1699(which became law) from 2011 that defines the process for firearms rights restoration after being adjudicated incompetent. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...111+sum+HB1699

    But i thought that there was language in the bills/laws from an earlier session that dealt with these temp involuntary detainments that allowed for automatic rights restoration if found competent, ie not bat crap crazy.

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Virginia's Emergency Custody Statute - Who Is next?

    http://m.nbc12.com/autojuice?targetU...atric-facility

    I hope he follows through with a civil suit this whole situation is unacceptable.
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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Virginia's Emergency Custody Statute - Who Is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    http://m.nbc12.com/autojuice?targetU...atric-facility

    I hope he follows through with a civil suit this whole situation is unacceptable.
    +1


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    Good to see the judge slapped this down and released the guy. The individual in question didn't do anything, like make an actual threat, that would warrant detention for psychiatric evaluation. But who knows, this guy might go off the deep end and do something bad at a later time. And if I'm not mistaken, once so detained, you can never answer "NO" to those pesky questions on concealed carry permit applications and the ATF's form 4473 regarding your mental health. Worst case, the detainee, even once released, may never be able to possess firearms, let alone OC or CC.

    An even greater problem, that is very germane to OC, CC and gun ownership in general, is that there are medical "professionals" who believe gun ownership itself is a mental illness and public health menace and would happily send all gun owners off for involuntary and indefinite detention in a psych facility.

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