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Thread: Quick question about stocks.

  1. #1
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    Quick question about stocks.

    I have been reading the law over and over trying to understand it. My question is what is the definition Virginia uses in regards to a folding stock? I'm referring to one on a rifle. Take the G36. That has a folding stock. Because it folds over onto the weapon itself. But what about a AR15 variant? The stock does not fold. It collapses. Or retracts. Would this be legal?

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quick question about stocks.

    For a quick answer they are both legal. My search of the Virginia Code did not turn up any statutes related to stocks on a firearm. I have personally had both while living in VA an both types are frequently sold at gun shows.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 08-21-2012 at 02:36 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    For a quick answer they are both legal. Hold for a cite...
    I think he's talking about the loaded in forbidden localities without a permit.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quick question about stocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think he's talking about the loaded in forbidden localities without a permit.
    Ah, this one:

    18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4

    Doesn't a CHP (yes, I know you hate them Peter) exempt you from the above?
    Last edited by thebigsd; 08-21-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4

    Doesn't a CHP (yes, I know you hate them Peter) exempt you from the above?
    Yep

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    He could be asking about the folding stock with regards to an assault rifle, ie needing the extra form of ID to prove citizenship.

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    Im asking about the legality of a rifle with a collapsing stock instead of a folding in regards to open carry. I know most people here dont try to advocate open carrying a rifle but I cant make heads or tails of it. The law states its unlawful to have a rifle with more than 20 rounds or a folding stock but it says nothing about a collapsible stock.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    For a quick answer they are both legal. My search of the Virginia Code did not turn up any statutes related to stocks on a firearm. I have personally had both while living in VA an both types are frequently sold at gun shows.
    Also.. It is unlawful to possess, sell, transfer, or import any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding 12 rounds.
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Also.. It is unlawful to possess, sell, transfer, or import any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding 12 rounds.
    Saiga 12
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Ok so when I was reading it earlier I missed the second half of the law. The part that states who it applies to.

    18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    I have a valid concealed carry permit. But that also begs the question. Since I have one does that mean I am not limited to a magazine that carries 20 rounds or less for my pistol? Even if its openly carried?
    Last edited by Doc_Smith; 08-21-2012 at 07:59 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quick question about stocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    SNIP I have a valid concealed carry permit. But that also begs the question. Since I have one does that mean I am not limited to a magazine that carries 20 rounds or less for my pistol? Even if its openly carried?
    If you have a CHP, you are exempt from all of the requirements in that statue including the limit on the number of rounds in the magazine regardless of whether you are carrying concealed or openly.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    This is what happens when I try to research law when Im at work. I miss things. One last question though about the CCP. I am a Virginia resident but also a member of the U.S. Army stationed here in Virginia. My drivers license and my CCP have two different addresses. Does this make my CCP void/illegal?

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quick question about stocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    This is what happens when I try to research law when Im at work. I miss things. One last question though about the CCP. I am a Virginia resident but also a member of the U.S. Army stationed here in Virginia. My drivers license and my CCP have two different addresses. Does this make my CCP void/illegal?
    No it does not. In fact, all you you have to show with your permit would be your military ID and that would be sufficient as identification.

    "The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. Failure to display the permit and a photo identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer shall be punishable by a $25 civil penalty, which shall be paid into the state treasury. Any attorney for the Commonwealth of the county or city in which the alleged violation occurred may bring an action to recover the civil penalty. A court may waive such penalty upon presentation to the court of a valid permit and a government-issued photo identification. Any law-enforcement officer may issue a summons for the civil violation of failure to display the concealed handgun permit and photo identification upon demand."

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    This is what happens when I try to research law when Im at work. I miss things. One last question though about the CCP. I am a Virginia resident but also a member of the U.S. Army stationed here in Virginia. My drivers license and my CCP have two different addresses. Does this make my CCP void/illegal?
    It's a CHP and no it's perfectly legal.

    I've gotta go over to the baking section now
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-21-2012 at 08:26 PM.

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    Well then I was lied to by a cop (go figure). I do appreciate everyone's help with my inane questions. I need to start reading more when I have the time.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    Well then I was lied to by a cop (go figure). I do appreciate everyone's help with my inane questions. I need to start reading more when I have the time.
    If you want good legal advice...ask a Cop, then do exactly the opposite, especially if it's a Newport News Cop. They're tied with Fairfax on the stoopid scale.

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    It was a Newport News cop.. They are our friends arent they?! They would never lie to us... Right?

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quick question about stocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    Well then I was lied to by a cop (go figure). I do appreciate everyone's help with my inane questions. I need to start reading more when I have the time.
    Cops are unfortunately not sound sources of legal advice as Peter has already noted...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    It was a Newport News cop.. They are our friends arent they?! They would never lie to us... Right?
    Well Doc, there are good cops, bad cops, stupid cops, smart cops, corrupt cops, honest cops.....you get the idea.

    Most of them on this site are here to stir up trouble and as a rule, pretty stupid...but we have some non LEO members like that too, so you can't condemn the whole bunch.

    Police Officers are not lawyers and often don't know what the law is, but are more than happy to advise you if asked.

    The two worst places to get legal advice are:

    1. Police
    2. The Internet.

    You've looked for it on both. Fortunately, we have cite to authority rule as well as competent legal opinions when needed.
    You still need to verify it yourself.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-21-2012 at 09:23 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Saiga 12
    What about it? I have a beautiful one on Raffle at http://VirginiaGunRaffle.com or click the NRA ad at the top of the OCDO page.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member Lincoln7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    What about it? I have a beautiful one on Raffle at http://VirginiaGunRaffle.com or click the NRA ad at the top of the OCDO page.
    He was referring to the fact that the Saiga 12 is a popular shotgun that can easily fall under this code when equipped with a folding stock and a 12+ rnd drum magazine. Otherwise, it's good to go, and I've heard great things!

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