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Thread: Fine print on sign question

  1. #1
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    Fine print on sign question

    Twice now I have run across this sign.

    The words "except as otherwise permitted by law" across the bottom, to me at least, means that I can still carry either as OC or CC.
    Am I right or wrong?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I doubt it, that property owner probably doesn't even know regular citizens CAN legally OC. It really depends upon the attitude of the property owner. I'd call him personally and ask for clarification or just not go there. or if you do go there carry concealed and don't say anything about having a gun.

    It's like a Godfather's Pizza in Port Orchard has a .300 (d) sign in the restaurant (firearms prohibited in this liqour licensed establishment) problem is, Godfather's doesn't sell hard liqour for consumption on-premises, and their store is not off limits to those under 21. so their sign is not legally binding or enforceable under law cited on the sign, but hey! I get the message guns are not welcome in your restaurant, so fine i'll go eat at the pizza factory across the parking lot. I may not OC yet, but I have already started dollar voting.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    The signs are posted on the front doors of the Olympic medical centers 2 annexes in Sequim.
    I saw the first one 8 days ago when I went in for my A1C test and again today when I went to the Podiatrist. I asked the doctor when the signs went up and he didn't even know they were there. He does not use the front door since his office is next to the back door which is not posted (I checked).

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    Actually the exception was part of the original printing of the sign, it is just highlighted.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ... I have already started dollar voting.
    awesome. If only all gun carriers would follow suit.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Technically RCW 9.41.300 only restricts the carry of firearms in a public mental health hospital. Some hospitals claim they are private property and thus trespass firearm offenders from the premises. How this works for public hospitals like Harborview in Seattle I don't know. As no section of the RCW or the WAC allows for it.

    so technically you're lawful walking into there with a gun. How that works out as far as being trespassed or asked to leave I don't know, tread with care
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Technically RCW 9.41.300 only restricts the carry of firearms in a public mental health hospital. Some hospitals claim they are private property and thus trespass firearm offenders from the premises. How this works for public hospitals like Harborview in Seattle I don't know. As no section of the RCW or the WAC allows for it.

    so technically you're lawful walking into there with a gun. How that works out as far as being trespassed or asked to leave I don't know, tread with care
    well I didnt see the posts IDing this place as a public hospital. I know public hospitals do that all the time,attempt to restrict guns. I can't find any legal authority for a public hospital to do that. But it's been done. If you're wiling to be a test case then go right on in.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The same way it worked out when ex-Mayor Nichols tried to tresspass people lawfully carrying firearms on Seattle City property.....
    Well it's apparently illegal under preemption statutes. So I suppose what one should do is make an appointment with a doctor there (so you have legitimate business at the hospital) then show up OCing. They'll either A) allow you in with no harassment whatsoever, in which case good they know the law. B) they'll ask to seize your firearm and secure it in a lock box. You can either refuse and leave, or comply and demand a property receipt (to prove they took custody of your gun) or they will C) call security who will inform you to lock it up, refuse to lock it up, and ask for a written notice of trespass explaining your lawful carry as the reason you were expelled. Take the property receipt or trespass warning to court and sue the hospital for violation of preemption under RCW 9 41 300

    these are the ways to deal with it
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    As a FYI I covered my XD40 both times as I always do when I go to those 2 places. I use my mobility scooter to go everywhere locally because I don't like driving my pickup unless I am going more than 15 miles each way.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    reguarding this subject... does anybody know if Group Health and their facilities are considered public or private?

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    reguarding this subject... does anybody know if Group Health and their facilities are considered public or private?
    group health is a customer owned health cooperative. They are not owned by any unit of government nor a municipal corporation or special taxing district. Therefore they would be considered private under the law.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    the reason I ask is because they have no signs anywhere on their property and I can't find it in writing on web sites owned and operated by group health. but the employees say that guns (OC or CC) are not allowed. this is an issue for me since they provide my medical services and I am usually in at least one of their facilities once a week or more. I don't drive a car and I must take a bus so I can't leave a weapon locked up in my car and it's pointless to leave it at home... They do however provide someplace for their consumers to lock up their weapons on the property but the consumer does not have the only key to said lock so if this option was used, the gun owner would no longer be in posession of the weapon...

  13. #13
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    the reason I ask is because they have no signs anywhere on their property and I can't find it in writing on web sites owned and operated by group health. but the employees say that guns (OC or CC) are not allowed. this is an issue for me since they provide my medical services and I am usually in at least one of their facilities once a week or more. I don't drive a car and I must take a bus so I can't leave a weapon locked up in my car and it's pointless to leave it at home... They do however provide someplace for their consumers to lock up their weapons on the property but the consumer does not have the only key to said lock so if this option was used, the gun owner would no longer be in posession of the weapon...
    insist on a property receipt if you must turn in your firearm to enter the premises. The recept should indicate what time they took custody of the firearm, who owns the firearm, serial number, and make and model. And make sure it is signed by someone authorized to sign for a hospital. (security guards usually are) make sure there's nothing just "going missing"
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  14. #14
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Took the wife to the medical clinic, then the lab (public hospital, North Valley, Tonasket) then back to the clinic (Wenatchee Valley Medical Clinic in Tonasket). No signs, OC'd my CZ85, not a peep from anyone.

  15. #15
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    The Olympic Medical Center, located primarily in Port Angeles, has not been a "hospital" for many years. As a financial-political maneuver, when it was a hospital, the (then) administrator, Al Remington, determined that the county would enjoy significant financial benefits by demoting the hospital to a community medical center (or some such similar status that does not rise to the status of "hospital"). My understanding is that that is the legal nature of the entity today. At the time of the change, Olympic Memorial did not have a financial interest in what was then the Sequim Medical Clinic. As I recall, but do not know as a fact (although I think that I did at one time), Olympic Memorial acquired some form of interest in the clinic at a later date.

    How that may affect the preemption by the state of firearms laws, I don't know. Whether Olympic Memorial actually now owns the clinic, or whether there is some other status of the relationship, is not something I have tracked over the years. If it is still private, then they likely have a lawful right to prohibit the carrying of firearms on the premises. That said, the "add-on" disclaimer to the Brady sign leads one to the logical conclusion that Olympic Memorial has enough of an ownership interest to make the facility subject to the preemption statute.

    I believe that the Olympic Medical Center is still governed by a publicly elected Board of Commissioners.
    Last edited by rapgood; 08-22-2012 at 01:08 AM.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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