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Thread: OT: Harrassment of naturalized citizens

  1. #1
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    OT: Harrassment of naturalized citizens

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1796910.html

    "Ever since he was first elected as Secretary of State in 2010, Gessler has been on a mission to maybe prove that there is possibly a problem with an unknown number of Coloradans who may or may not be legally registered to vote. "

    So, DW received the below form letter in the mail today.

    http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...etterFINAL.pdf

    Basically, when she got her driver's license, she presented her green card as proof of her legal residence. When she got her citizenship, she registered to vote. There's a loophole there that no one checked her citizenship at the time. Theoretically, she could have gotten her license with her green card and then come back and registered to vote. NOTE: This is not about non-legal residents. They don't have green cards and they can't (legally) get driver's licenses.

    The letter went out to 4000 AMERICAN CITIZENS. Because of a bureaucratic snafu in the Secretary of State's office, they are being bullied to jump through additional red tape that may or may not be resolved 80 days before the election. Scottie has stated he will "work with county clerks about what to do with people who don't return their forms".

    We are talking about 0.2% of registered voters. That have the POTENTIAL to up and decide if they want to commit felony voter fraud. Of which there have been TEN cases nationwide since 2010. In fact there were a few hundred non-citizens sent ballots IN ERROR who called the state to inform them that, no, they couldn't vote and no, no thank you, did not want to be entrapped for voter fraud, or be dragged into political advertising junk mail, and would they please get their paperwork straight. Hell, DW got called for jury duty TWICE before getting her citizenship, sending it back each time checking the box that she was not legally eligible to participate. She got called once more after becoming a citizen, whereas I've never been called.

    So, what to do about the letter. What are they going to do? Deregister her to vote? Ohhhh, I can't wait to see that lawsuit for depriving legitimately registered AMERICAN CITIZENS of their right to vote. That wouldn't be failing to send deployed soldiers paperwork, that is actively depriving someone of their vote because the state can't organize their paperwork. Close the loophole? Go for it. They still cannot legally require her to retroactively reregister because of ex post facto.

    Following the "government doesn't ask for anything they can legally demand" rule of thumb, I'm taking note of everything they ask to be done "voluntarily", please, pretty please. This "please affirm you are a citizen or withdraw from the voter rolls" is straight up intimidation. I got your "please affirm" right here. And in the other hand I've got the constitution Scottie-boyo.

    IMNSHO, this is no different than harrassing LACs for what a random BG, maybe, potentially, possibly, probably not, but still within the realm of imagination, could do.

  2. #2
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    But it's not a big deal. Just comply with the request, you'll get out of there sooner.

    Snarf.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    If they can set up a computer program to pull 4000 names of people who might possibly be citizens (but then again maybe they aren't), write a letter, & keep track of replies,

    don'cha think that just maybe they could use existing computer programs to compare the names on that list against the names of citizens, or even just naturalized citizens?

    I'm pretty sure that would be faster & cheaper.
    And maybe there would be a few people whose status is really in question, and then they can investigate further.

    But I'm positive that becoming a citizen lays such a broad & deep paper trail that it wouldn't be difficult to take the name of someone "questionable" & plunk it into their database & get an answer pretty quick.

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    Regular Member GTShooter's Avatar
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    LIke the OP said, when you go get your license the people at the DMV automatically ask you if you are registered to vote or you want to register to vote, see it this way. If you are a new Resident, just got to the country and are not familiar with the laws of the US (No you are not required to pass a test on US history or Law to become a resident) and someone tells you do you want to become a donor, do you want to register to vote and some other questions they always ask, there will always be confused people that CAN and on many ocassions already have said yes.

    I blame the DMV for being so ignorant to what reality of the immigration laws are in this country. But yeah, I would just fill out the form and be done with it.
    Last edited by GTShooter; 08-30-2012 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTShooter View Post
    LIke the OP said, when you go get your license the people at the DMV automatically ask you if you are registered to vote or you want to register to vote, see it this way. If you are a new Resident, just got to the country and are not familiar with the laws of the US (No you are not required to pass a test on US history or Law to become a resident) and someone tells you do you want to become a donor, do you want to register to vote and some other questions they always ask, there will always be confused people that CAN and on many ocassions already have said yes.

    I blame the DMV for being so ignorant to what reality of the immigration laws are in this country. But yeah, I would just fill out the form and be done with it.
    But the target group in this case isn't those who mistakenly registered. The letter says people who got their license with non-citizen legal residency documentation and then LATER registered to vote. I.e. after they got their citizenship. Since the letter went out, they were able to clear 88% of the people they reviewed. There are about 160 that need "further investigation". I.e. they did not determine they are non-citizens, they couldn't determine with the quick look-see. So, in the meantime, they've intimidated 4000 AMERICAN CITIZENS with veiled threats that if they can't re-register and jump through red tape they're not legally required to, they should give up their fundamental right to vote.

    It's like sending a letter to CHP holders saying, "We saw you bought an IWB holster before you got your CHP. Please provide proof that you were not illegally carrying before you had your CHP and cease CCing until we can schedule a hearing for you."

    The public hearing listing the 7 million ways what they're doing is illegal was a complete zoo, but I don't have time to go into it right now. If anyone is curious, I'll post a summary.

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    Regular Member GTShooter's Avatar
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    I agree its a bad situation all around. Good luck in the process.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    If they can set up a computer program to pull 4000 names of people who might possibly be citizens (but then again maybe they aren't), write a letter, & keep track of replies,

    don'cha think that just maybe they could use existing computer programs to compare the names on that list against the names of citizens, or even just naturalized citizens?

    I'm pretty sure that would be faster & cheaper.
    And maybe there would be a few people whose status is really in question, and then they can investigate further.

    But I'm positive that becoming a citizen lays such a broad & deep paper trail that it wouldn't be difficult to take the name of someone "questionable" & plunk it into their database & get an answer pretty quick.
    wait...you mean (gasp)...use the computer to do the work for you?? Like doing a little data mining...cross checking...verifying...AND then mailing if warranted?? (sadly shakes head)...."that's not how things are done 'roun here..."
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTShooter View Post
    I blame the DMV for being so ignorant to what reality of the immigration laws are in this country.
    I agree, and believe they never should have had the authority to register me to vote here in Colorado in the first place. As I'd just retired, and had returned home from an overseas duty location, I had no drivers' license. The local DMV said, "Your military ID will be sufficient." No, it's not. One does not have to be a U.S. citizen to be in the U.S. military. A green card is sufficient.

    I asked them, "Wouldn't you like something a bit more substantial?" and handed them my DD-214, which lists my full name, SSN, and Date and Place of birth. That information is thoroughly checked when you enter the service, and I distinctly recall having to provide them with a copy of both my Birth Certificate, my SSN card, and my drivers' license. The later wasn't used for proof of citizenship. It was used as a source document for the background check, and that's just to get into the service. That's before the second background check required for the security clearance (or the third required for higher clearance).

    Regardless, the gold care is one's birth certificate and one's SSN card (which can't be issued with location-specific numbers without a valid birth certificate, which is why none of Obama's records match the others...).

    Back to the issue at hand, we have a local voter registration office here in Colorado Springs. They and they ALONE should be asking the question and filling out they documentation, preferably for a voter ID, which would then be required to match the records (electronic or printed) before one is allowed to vote.
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