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Thread: Man Allegedly Drove Drunk With Gun Through Greenfield

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Man Allegedly Drove Drunk With Gun Through Greenfield

    http://greenfield.patch.com/articles...uspatc00000001

    So having a loaded firearm in the car automatically means you get charged with "endangering safety with use of a dangerous weapon?"
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    http://greenfield.patch.com/articles...uspatc00000001

    So having a loaded firearm in the car automatically means you get charged with "endangering safety with use of a dangerous weapon?"
    941.20  Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
    (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
    (a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon; or
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant; or
    (bm) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood. A defendant has a defense to any action under this paragraph that is based on the defendant allegedly having a detectable amount of methamphetamine, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in his or her blood, if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that at the time of the incident or occurrence he or she had a valid prescription for methamphetamine or one of its metabolic precursors, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.
    Last edited by NoTolerance; 08-23-2012 at 10:17 AM.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    My question still stands. So when you disarm to go into a bar and leave it in the car, this is what you are going to be charged with? So how are you to store it?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Right charge, wrong weapon. From the looks of the other stories that week Greenfield is an exciting place to be if you are a police officer or an innocent pedestrian. Man brought it on himself looking for the gun while talking to the officer. Me suspects an alcohol problem and a somewhat diminished lack of common sense. No sympathy for him and I hope he loses his gun and his license to drive. He made it look bad for all of us not just himself.
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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Re: Man Allegedly Drove Drunk With Gun Through Greenfield

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    My question still stands. So when you disarm to go into a bar and leave it in the car, this is what you are going to be charged with? So how are you to store it?
    Technically, that should be a non-issue, right? You shouldn't be driving while intoxicated.

    I suppose if you really want to play it safe (assuming you're not intoxicated but have been drinking), the best course of action would be to leave it encased and out of reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    Right charge, wrong weapon. From the looks of the other stories that week Greenfield is an exciting place to be if you are a police officer or an innocent pedestrian. Man brought it on himself looking for the gun while talking to the officer. Me suspects an alcohol problem and a somewhat diminished lack of common sense. No sympathy for him and I hope he loses his gun and his license to drive. He made it look bad for all of us not just himself.
    Hope he does not have a CCL. That makes us CCL holders look bad. Booze, drugs, guns never mix well. Because of my world view, I never drink in a bar or in public. yep 941.20. Too bad.

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    dont take your gun out drinking with you, it cant hold it's liquor, and might do something stupid.

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    Throw the book at him. Alcohol is a mood alterating drug and alcohol and gunpowder do not mix any better than alcohol and gasoline.

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    From the article about the Aug. 15, 2012 Greenfield arrest:

    Eventually the officer called for backup and Emanuele was placed under arrest. He told the officers he had a gun in the passenger side door compartment. Police found it loaded with three bullets.

    Emanuele was taken to the Greenfield Police Department where he failed field sobriety tests and had a blood alcohol level of 0.16, which is twice the legal limit to drive in Wisconsin.
    I would expect the same definition of "goes armed with a firearm" that is used in jury instructions for violation of the Concealed Carry statute, and came from the conclusion in the State v. Walls 1994 Court of Appeals case

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=4,50&as_vis=1

    [3,4] ... (1) the weapon is located inside a vehicle and is within the defendant's reach;...
    A Supreme Court case also weighed in on this issue of "going armed with":

    http://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/D...df&seqNo=17572
    In re the Return of Property in: State of Wisconsin v. Carlos Perez:

    28 The exact same principle is shown in Wis. Stat.
    941.20, entitled "Endangering Safety by [the] use of dangerous
    weapon." This section reads in part:
    ...

    29 Operating, handling, and intentionally pointing imply
    active utilization, but the phrase "goes armed with" is the same
    phrase that appears in the carrying a concealed and dangerous
    weapon statute, and the latter statute requires nothing more
    than conscious possession.
    All these words and phrases fall
    under the heading "Endangering safety by use of a dangerous
    weapon." See also Wis. Stat. 941.26 ("Machine guns and other
    weapons; use in certain cases; penalty."). Possession is listed
    in 941.26 under the heading "use."

    30 To sum up, the dictionary definitions of the noun
    "use" include "the power or ability to use something," and that
    meaning of the word is broad enough——"elastic" enough in the
    language of Judge Nettesheim——to include conscious possession
    with an ability to use. "Going armed with a concealed and
    dangerous weapon" clearly adds up to conscious possession with
    an ability to use. Thus, going armed with a concealed and
    dangerous weapon is one example of "commit[ting] a crime
    involving the use of the dangerous weapon."
    Per the above, don't expect to get your firearm back, if convicted of 941.20 (Endangering safety by use of a dangerous weapon) or 941.23 (Carrying Concealed Weapon), even though the weapon was not "used" in the crime, in the normal meaning of the word used. This foreiture of the weapon, or not. is governed by WI statute 968.20 Return of property seized.

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tatutes/968/20

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Before drinking alcohol, I would suggest that you have the firearm unloaded, locked/encased, and out of reach in the vehicle. I have no advice for how you can legally get the firearm into your home, after arriving there, if you are under the influence. Get someone sober to move it, I guess.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 08-24-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    My question still stands. So when you disarm to go into a bar and leave it in the car, this is what you are going to be charged with? So how are you to store it?
    Call a cab; let your hog-leg drink soda...
    Bale da Hay

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    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    don't expect to get your firearm back, if convicted of 941.20 (Endangering safety by use of a dangerous weapon) or 941.23 (Carrying Concealed Weapon)
    It's worse than that... if the firearm is present during any crime (for which you are convicted), & the police find & confiscate it, it will be forfeit & destroyed.
    Never mind if you were possessing it or merely transporting it; if it were actually used in a crime or simply U&E in the trunk of the car; if it's present it's toast.

    I've seen a judge refuse to return a pistol that was in the trunk when the operator was stopped for DUI. (He had been convicted before petitioning for the property to be returned.)
    This was waaay pre-cc in WI, but she's still on the bench, despite her unethical acts in other cases.

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    Re: Man Allegedly Drove Drunk With Gun Through Greenfield

    So if you have a valid prescription for controlled substances you can still carry legally from what I'm gathering here? While it may be for pain or other reasons?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by bspiller; 08-26-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    surprised that they didn't charge him with DUI also , or maybe they did and the article just ignores it

    now what really has me confused is how you can afford an Audi and to get drunk on what were probably 6 dollar drinks x6=$36 but not enough bullets to fill your gun

    very seriously out of line priorities

    also makes me think of a line from a movie ," I am not as afraid of the country that wants a hundred nuclear bombs as the guy who only wants 1"

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